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Astro-Databank: David Beckham (Read 544 times)
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Astro-Databank: David Beckham
« on: 25.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
David Beckham, born 2 May 1975 at 06:17 AM in Leytonstone
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

     
    Yes, we know it's the end of football season in the US and football fans are eagerly anticipating the Super Bowl. Football in Europe is a different game (soccer) with a different season. One European footballer has been as much in the news lately as the Super Bowl hype and we thought it would be fun to take a look at his chart. David Beckham has just signed a huge contract to play soccer with a major league US team. He has established himself as a leading soccer player. His athletic prowess, good looks, fashionable lifestyle, an attractive wife, and a reputation as a sometime-bad-boy on and off the field, all combine to keep him in the media's lens. Some critics think he's not as great a soccer player as he is a media star. Let's study his chart for clues to his abilities and reputation.  
     
  • His athletic prowess includes an ability to kick long-distance goals, make lightening-quick moves and exhibit great stamina. What factors in the chart might depict his athletic talent and ability to rise above the rest?
  • Where in the chart would you see his enormous star appeal, his good looks, fashion sense? Where is his marketability, his ability to rake in millions in endorsements, even have a movie named for him?
  • His moon at the last degree of Capricorn is conjunct his MC and forms a trine to Mercury, conjunct his ASC in Taurus. What can we learn about him from this earthy trine of planets and angles? How would you factor in the placement of Uranus, retrograde in Libra, forming a square aspect to his Moon (exact) and MC and a quincunx to his Mercury-ASC conjunction?
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #1 - on: 25.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza
 
Why does question #3 say his moon is at the last degree of Capricorn, when the chart shows it at the first degree of Aquarius? That question also refers to a Mercury-ASC conjunction, when what is shown is a Venus-ASC conjunction, with Mercury 20 degrees away, back in the 12th.
Anyway. (1): Mars, Mars, and more Mars. His Mars is all over the chart: angular in the 10th and almost exactly square his asc/desc axis; square Venus and Neptune; trine Saturn (a great aspect for endurance/stamina); semisquare the Moon. Mars in Pisces is the quintessential "dancer" placement: grace and agility, intuition (knowing which way to go to get the ball or avoid a tackle?), and it's in the 10th house of career. Jupiter in Aries also helps; it's in mutual reception with Mars (using traditional rulerships), so these planets strongly support and amplify each other.
(2) Good looks, Venus conjunct the Ascendant. Star appeal, marketability? That plus Moon conjunct (albeit widely) the MC. The latter effect is no doubt amplified by the square between the Moon and ascendant ruler Uranus. He really captures the zeitgeist, the public mood. Money, endorsements? Saturn tends to extremes; his is in Taurus and I'm guessing that in Placidus, it would be in the 2nd house. 'Nuff said.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #2 - on: 25.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User BN
 
Error Re David Beckham: If you check the AA Transits site that you quote, you will notice that Frank Clifford gives him Taurus Asc with Moon in Capricorn.
Why then have you given DB a Gemini Asc with Aquarius Moon?
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #3 - on: 25.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Therese
 
Lisa wrote: (1): Mars, Mars, and more Mars. His Mars is all over the chart... Mars in Pisces is the quintessential "dancer" placement: grace and agility, intuition (knowing which way to go to get the ball or avoid a tackle?)... Right, a very good Tropical interpretation with Mars in Pisces, sign of the feet.  
Vedic has Sun exalted in Aries in the 12th, house of the feet, and Mars, 12th lord and Sun's dispositor in the 10th.
Vedic also gives Mars 'dig bala' or directional strength (another kind of dignity) in the 10th--maybe because the 10th is Capricorn's natural house, the exaltation sign of Mars. From the navamsa, a dignified Mars in Aries conjoins the natal exalted Sun in the 12th.
This is a good chart for equal house. If the M.C. is cusp of 10th, then the Moon is the highest planet in the chart.
(2) Good looks, Venus conjunct the Ascendant. Vedic adds Venus in dignity in Taurus, which makes it stronger for physical appearance. The ascendant and Venus are also in a lunar mansion of Mars, which removes some of the Venus type symbolism we might expect. (This would be Mercury type symbolism in the tropical zodiac for a Gemini ascendant.) As for the money and endorsements linked to his career, Jupiter is dignified in Pisces in the 11th, house of gain. Tenth lord, Saturn is in a friendly sign (Gemini) in the 2nd house of finances. This Saturn receives the full aspect of the dignified Mars, the aspect of dignified Jupiter from the 11th, and the sextile from the exalted Sun.
A dignified Jupiter in a good house says that he chart owner will follow his 'dharma,' (destiny), which in this case comes with the adoration of the masses and lots of dollars, both coming under Jupiter. Jupiter also rules the 8th of team sports. So money comes in the context of being a member of a nationally popular soccer team.
Beckhams's chart is a poster horoscope for Vedic/sidereal. It's difficult to get a chart this perfect.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #4 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marjorie Orr
 
My astrological software makes 2 May 1975 British Summer Time thus minus one hour, giving him a late Taurus ascendant and Moon on the MC. Pluto in the 5th opposition Jupiter, and Venus in the 2nd (Koch).
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #5 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User ET
 
I'm afraid you printed the wrong chart. I get the ASC in 27-28 Taurus using the time given. You mention he has Moon in Capricorn but the Moon is in Aquarius there.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #6 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
Thank you Marjorie; I suspected the same so I did my delineation accordingly.
<b>1.) </b> " What factors in the chart might depict his athletic talent and ability to rise above the rest?"
Mars trine Saturn gives the power to kick long distance goals as well as the stamina; and Jupiter in Aries opposite Pluto and in a T-square with Saturn adds greatly to the power and the distance. Mercury conjunct the ASC (and probable ruler of this chart) gives the "lightening quick moves."
Mercury is one of the rulers of the feet and it is in the house (12th) that rules the feet. Mars (ruler of the 12th) is in Pisces the Sign that rules the feet and it is in a quintile to both Mercury and the ASC. This shows that athletic (Mars) talent (quintile) with the feet (Mercury and Mars in Pisces).
Mars in the tenth house semi-square the most elevated Moon conjunct the MC shows one with the ability to rise above the rest (as does the Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto T-square). Also his essential dignity score is a +34 with no planets negative. I am sure that there are charts with a higher dignity score but I can't find one right now.
This chart is a quintessential tropical example of a speedy star athlete who uses his feet to both earn his living and his fame.
<b>2.) </b> " Where in the chart would you see his enormous star appeal, his good looks, fashion sense? Where is his marketability, his ability to rake in millions in endorsements, even have a movie named for him?"
Mars in Pisces in the 10th house is clear indicator of his enormous athletic star appeal. Having the Moon conjunct the MC in the Placidus 10th adds to the mass appeal. Taurus Sun/ASC with Venus in the first house gives the earthy good looks. Mercury and Venus are also in mutual reception and this adds to the fashion sense.
Sun in Taurus in an exact quincunx to Neptune in Sagittarius shows the movies and some of the marketability. The T-square with Jupiter in Aries in the tenth opposite Pluto in the 5th gives the ability to "rake in millions in endorsements" as Jupiter rules advertising/endorsements and Pluto rules millionaires/billionaires.
Jupiter ruling the 8th house of other people's money also emphasizes this.
<b>3.) </b> "His moon at the last degree of Capricorn is conjunct his MC and forms a trine to Mercury, conjunct his ASC in Taurus. What can we learn about him from this earthy trine of planets and angles? How would you factor in the placement of Uranus, retrograde in Libra, forming a square aspect to his Moon (exact) and MC and a quincunx to his Mercury-ASC conjunction?"
The Earth ASC/Mercury MC/Moon trine shows the material success and that he is one who is very comfortable in his own skin. That Mercury and the Moon are co-rulers of the 2nd house of ones own money and self-esteem as well as ones values and resources again shows financial success and shows that he is very self-sufficient and very resourceful.  
It also shows his popularity with the people (Moon/MC) and that he is a natural leader (Cap Moon). The Moon and Saturn in mutual reception further emphasizes this and shows that he is also one who certainly knows how to manage both his finances and his career (and probably his emotions as well).
Mercury in quincunx to Uranus along with Uranus square the Moon adds much to the lightening quick (Mercury/Uranus) reflexes (Moon)
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #7 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User margaret
 
Hope no-one minds this being an eastern 'vedic' reading. David's asc is still Taurus, but an earlier degree, aspects are not interpreted or used the same way in vedic astrol and the outer planets are not used so I wont address the Uranus factor, though of course in a western interp. it is important. 1. Athletic prowess: Venus is in the first house which it also owns and in many footballers charts it will always feature prominently, it rules balls........ (in vedic astrol it rules the ovaries ergo balls) It rules sixth house of competition which makes him thrive in competitive sports, and with Mars aspecting asc and Venus from tenth house it adds that extra competitive edge, as well as a massive motivation to succeed and be seen as the leader and commander of the field---literally! Mars also aspects Mercury in first house ruler of fifth house of leisure activity, skill and learning---with the ball/Venus ( and probably with sexual arts I might add incidentally, but I digress due to the chart leading me astray here..), but if we also look at the South Node, know as Ketu in vedic astrol, this offers a flavour of discernment and talent and discrimination to the areas David studies and becomes involved with learning and developing, hence his renowned skill with controlling the ball and gaining goals with the 'bend it like Beckham' unique talent. There are many facors which give David the planetary support to rise above all others, many 'raj yogas' and others yogas which predict his success, but I will focus on the Moon in ninth house of reputation, which gives him the ability to work hard but also gain good fortunate trends (divine providence) to support his aims, (note Blair has this factor but it is disturbed in his chart by the presence of the North Node/Rahu which thwarts many of his plans, bestows compulsive bahaviour and causes mental confusion). The second factor that aids the rise above others in sport is the presence of a strong Jupiter in elventh house whihc it also rules, and eleventh is house of gains, so he will always increasingly gain from endeavours connected to the field of sport, but also the field of entertainment. The exalted sun in twelfth house gives strong overseas succesa also.
2. Star Appeal, good looks and fashion sense etc. There are many yogas in his chart which give massive potential for fame whihc would have singled him out for his world renown from birth. His venusin own house in first/asc is known as Malavya Mahapurusha Yoga and gives him his charm and good physique, his lips are perfectly formed (as predicted by ancient seers) and he s destined for fame and renown especially due to his learning and knowledge. Venus bestows an artistic sense due to the influence of the discernment bestowed by South Node-Ketu conjoining the asc ruler, and anyone with a strong Venus in quadrant, but especially in first house, would always adorn themselves well and enjoy wearing jewellery and other expensive items of beautification i.e. expensive designer clothes and accessories. As already mentioned Jupiter, which rules entertainment is in eleventh and its own house, so is very strong, and as eleventh is house of gain/income, he can continue to rake in as much money as he chooses from lucrative contracts due to this influence. meida is ruled by third house and moon, and as the Moon is aspecting its own third house it gives him massive potential to exploit the visual media particularly, so that his picture is always in the headlines and he profits from this due to ruler of eleventh of gains aspecting the third house. No wonder he is so closely allied to film, photographic media and the entertainement industry. Don't forget also he has massive property ownership potential and the move to US is an advancement of his investment in this area. He has North node Rahu in seventh, house of business enterprise, so he can engage in many land and property deals which will consolidate his wealth for many years to come. Unique to vedic astrology is the timing of events, and currently he is in a Rahu main--Mahadasa, which is the best time of all for him to focus on this kind of commercial move. Finally, though not exhaustively, all his planets are above the horizon giving him a very public life, where most of his actions in this lifetime will be well known, well documented seen and visible, and with them being in fixed signs mostly (a Musala Yoga) he is destined to be proud, learned, wealthy and liked by those in positions of power, which always helps if you want those at the top to give you a lift up there and help with marketing you! I think Qestion 3 has been answered by other features in this vedic reading than the ones directed to be used.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #8 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User margaret
 
I just want to add that if the time in the book is GDT i.e Greenwich Daytime, then the hospital will have already deducted the summer time, something many hospitals seem to be doing now, which would mean no summer time deduction needed for this chart, in which case the western asc would be Gemini. However, happily for me, in vedic astrology, even if the time is 6:17 GMT( which is what I assume Sly means by GDT????) then the asc remains the same, so my interp still holds true.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #9 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
May as well put my two cents in. Don't know about British hospitals and adjusting the time, but Solar Fire adjusted the one hour, which gives him 28Tau52 on the Asc. with the Mercury conjunction and last degree Cappy moon as suggested in the questions, but not in the posted chart.
With Placidus, this puts Venus in the first, but conjunct the 2nd house cusp, so good looks and money. Placidus also moves the Cancer Saturn into the 3rd, so doesn't put the restrictions on the finances as a 2nd house Saturn might have.
Also, anyone who doesn't want their email address posted, just remove the check in the comments section. I tried to send someone an email to make a correction to a post and got something to the effect that: this is not my name@not a real email address.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #10 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User RKO
 
Whole Signs = The Archetypal House System.
1. His athletic prowess includes an ability to kick long-distance goals, make lightening-quick moves and exhibit great stamina. What factors in the chart might depict his athletic talent and ability to rise above the rest?
Mars (The athlete, a la Gauquelin, in the 11th House (Clubs, societies, groups or Teams etc., in Pisces (Rules the feet. The spiritual warrior or Samurai). Fights (Mars) for the Team (11th house) and its utopian Goals = something Long term or Long Distance (Pisces always willing to help, uses feet to kick Long Distance goals). Mercury in the 1st House = the Body and Persona in Taurus. Presents oneself assertively (1st House) as Quick, Clever with Adaptable Tactics, (Mercury). Sun Exalted in the 1st House (Loves to be the Center of Attention), Practical and Determined to Develop and Build (Taurus) muscle memory (Taurus Loves to practice over and over 'til its perfect, a la Fred Astaire (a Taurus)). Also his Moon (instincts) and Mc (Long term personal Goal) in the 9th House (Long journeys or Distances), clinches his ability to kick long-distance goals.
2. Where in the chart would you see his enormous star appeal, his good looks, fashion sense? Where is his marketability, his ability to rake in millions in endorsements, even have a movie named for him?
Sun (the Star) Exalted in the 1st House (Persona) plus the Moon (Public Appeal) conjunct the Mc (what we show the world) in the 9th House (the cosmopolitan or international appeal) in Taurus (known for their good looks), ruled by Venus (art and fashion).
Marketability: Given all the talents and qualities above, marketability almost begs the question. However with Venus (Values) in Dignity in the in the 2nd House of money, finance and resources, in mutual reception with Mercury (Rules trade, the media, commerce, advertising and money-making schemes) it's not hard to see the easy marketability. Furthermore Pluto (great wealth and riches, i.e., Plutocrats) in opposition (an aspect not only of polarized challenge but also one of consummation and balance (Pluto is in the sign of balance, Libra)) with Jupiter (Expansion, Abundance, Success and good Fortune, etc.) in the 12th House of not only hidden enemies but hidden support as well.
3. His moon at the last degree of Capricorn is conjunct his MC and forms a trine to Mercury, conjunct his ASC in Taurus. What can we learn about him from this earthy trine of planets and angles? How would you factor in the placement of Uranus, retrograde in Libra, forming a square aspect to his Moon (exact) and MC and a quincunx to his Mercury-ASC conjunction?
This is far too speculative, whereas in the above (1. & 2.) we have concrete manifestation of behavior, talent and qualities.
Hindsight is wonderful!
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #11 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Therese
 
My copy of Solar Fire also deducted for British summer time, which kept the ascendant sign the same as the later chart, but in an earlier degree. As Margaret said, much of the Vedic interpretation still holds, but there are some differences.  
I'm going to pull up some soccer champion charts in ADB to compare the placements of planets. With the ealier time the equal cuspal signs are the same in both zodiacs.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #12 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
Therese - rather than use soccer champs, you might want to consider using superstar athletes in other sports that have made millions in contracts and endorsements and have famous wives (maybe not too many of those), like Arnold Schwarzenneger (body builder), Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neill (basketball), Barry Bonds (baseball - at least I think he had a great contract), Joe Namath (football) or someone more recent, Michelle Kwan (figure skating - although not married), Wayne Gretzky (hockey).
Just a thought.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #13 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Therese
 
Penelope, I'm looking for the big name soccer signature. Including other sports would extend the field too much. There are 13 charts in ADB 4 noted as champions that stood out from the team. I've run all their charts.  
I did want to see if anyone had a strongly angular Mars (to check Beckham's two charts, since the later chart has an almost exact EH Mars on cusp 10). Not a one with Mars very close to cusp 10, but one or two with Mars near the ascendant. No time today to study the charts.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #14 - on: 26.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
I had one more thought on Beckham strength and power; He has a minor grand trine with the Sun sextile both his Mars and Saturn. This is a powerful combo. I find minor grand trines to be just as beneficial as Major grand trines (and sometimes even moreso).
Also the 12th house placement of his Sun and Mercury along with that exact quincunx between his Sun and Neptune shows one who is probably a bit intuitive and able to read the other player he may be competing against. That Neptune is in the 7th house of open enemies greatly enhances this probability.
Being able to anticipate the actions of your opponent is a very powerful advantage and it is an ability that many great athletes have.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #15 - on: 27.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User margaret
 
Therese you are right about the changes to the vedic chart if summer time was already deducted. In the chart I have set up Beckham's Saturn and Venus are debiltiated in navamsa which adds to his marriage interp, but in dasamsa, his career chart, he has Moon in tenth debilitated, but a nice parivartan, (mutual exhange) with Jupiter, Mercury and Mars, which combine to increase motivation, entrepeneurship and overseas career activities etc. There are many other factors which would change with the birth time, even if the asc is the same of course you are right, which is why I searched astro websites to find a direct reference to the birth cert. and Sy's interp and found the following on skyscript's message site--hope this helps: I just got an email from AstroDatabank for their chart of the month and it is David Beckham. They have his time as 6:17am quoted by several noted astrologers such as Frank Clifford and Sy Scholfield. There is a copy of his birth certificate in the book by his father. You probably can't get more exact than that.  
The chart that they have up is an equal houses chart. It is fairly similar to some of Coder's speculations, for example, Saturn in the 2nd house. However, using Placidus, he has a Gemini ascendant with Saturn in the 3rd. REPLY LATER Thanks Goca. Here's the time: 6:17am, (27 Taurus 40).
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #16 - on: 27.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marjorie Orr
 
I'm not a football fan to put it mildly but my impression from headlines etc is that Beckham without the good looks, extraordinary and commercial hype, flashy wife etc would just have been thought a football star who never lived up to his early promise. His move to the US is definitely seen by sports writers in Europe as a sell-out, a sad end to what might have been a great career if he hadn't been distracted by earning money and getting famous. Perhaps Pluto in the 5th, propelled by Jupiter and that Mars Neptune square give him too much of a taste for the good life, rather than focussing on his skill.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #17 - on: 27.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
The more I study this chart the more compelling I find it.  
* He has three mutual receptions (Mercury/Venus - Moon/Saturn - Mars/Jupiter). * He has the minor grand trine with his Sun, Mars and Saturn with the Sun as the focal planet. * He has a T-square with Jupiter/Pluto and Saturn as the focal planet. * He has a quintile grand trine with Venus/MC and Jupiter as the focal planet. * He has the +34 essential dignity score.
<b>To Marjorie; </b> I think you may be right. This is the chart of a financially successful man who has used his athletic skill to make him a fortune; and perhaps that was always his objective.
That is why I don't think you will find a comparable chart of a soccer player because he is so much more than that. Instead of Mars alone; look to Mercury in the 12th conjunct the ASC with Mars supporting and aspecting (by quintile) what Mercury already brings.
Its funny how these conversations overlap at ADB; In the last newsmaker thread I was being assaulted for suggesting that Mercury had long been associated with the feet.
Here again we see the wing footed Mercury illustrating one who is "fleet of foot" with the Mars quintile adding the power along with the aspect to the ASC showing his special "Mercurial" talent.
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #18 - on: 27.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rob Gaydon
 
I have often found wrong charts bearing relation to correct ones
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re: David Beckham
« Reply #19 - on: 27.01.2007 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rob Gaydon
 
I have often found wrong charts to bear relation to correct ones
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