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Astro-Databank: Wesley K Clark (Read 94 times)
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Astro-Databank: Wesley K Clark
« on: 12.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Wesley K Clark, born 23 December 1944 at 05:43 AM in Chicago IL
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

If the presidential campaign were won on sheer brainpower, Wesley Clark would be the undisputed leader. He is a Rhodes Scholar and graduated at the top of his class at West Point. He was drafted into the presidential race because many Democrats felt that there was a need for someone tougher and more "presidential" to win against Bush.  
Now that we have had a chance to review his career in detail the brass isn't so shiny. There are a number of former co-workers who have come forth to declare that he is not a very likeable person. He has a reputation of being overly confident in his viewpoints and not listening to others. He isn't always right - nobody is - but it is infuriating when people act as if they are.
  • What gives this man such confidence in himself?
  • He has passed on Iowa and his campaign seems to be fading, but Pluto is coming up to conjoin his Mars during the early primaries, the Democratic convention and November 2004. Does this bode well for a turn around?
  • As so often happens, Clark's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. He's got a General's fierce will power that inspires confidence, but it doesn't promote likeability. (He practices "sleep discipline". He wraps his arms, closes his eyes, and goes right to sleep.) Can you find the fierce willpower in his chart?
 
By the way, Betsy Stang got Wesley Clark's birth time by asking him at a fund raiser. Someone please do the same for Dean and Edwards. If you find either candidate's time of birth from a reliable source, please send it to Pat Taglilatelo at Pat@AstroDatabank! The entire astrological community will thank you!
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #1 - on: 13.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Melvyn T Phillips
 
Ascendant Scorpio...Secretive and not one to show his feelings outwardly. Not a FACE for the people I would have thought and not very flexible to others opinions as it's a FIXED sign. MC in Virgo...Ideal for a Military Career as it shows order, detail and organisation. Jupiter in Virgo...BIG organisation qualities and LARGE organisations (Army/Politics) as it's in the 11th House. Mars in Sagi show a VERY outspoken person, not the most Diplomatic of people I would have thought, but Ideal for a Military Career. As a Capricorn Sun, he's a Hard Worker... Mercury in Capricorn shows a disciplined talker, very structered and cautious. Moon in Aries - A Fiery Moon and Impatient Emotionally I would have thought. May have a Hot Temper? Uranus in Gemini...A Radical person, that could communicate in a different way compared to some people and could TALK REFORM in some way. Pluto in Leo - Leadership Change is shown here and could involve foreign Lands and Foreigners. North Node in Cancer...Shows a Destiny toward a more Caring Future and Saturn is there to bring in Structure so the Emotions are kept in check. Also the 8th house is the house of Death (change) and other people's money etc...is this CAMPAIGN FUNDS? Moon Opposite Neptune....The tug and pull between Emotion and Dreams - usually a Wonderful Imagination and Strong Emotions. He needs to take Control of his Dreams and put them into practice - being a Capricorn, he should be able to. I find this Character a Typical Military Type, but is he...TOO HARSH for PUBLIC OFFICE? Maybe the Caring North Node in Cancer will help him?
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #2 - on: 13.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bern Jurecic
 
A question only:
What place can I take to get his Solar Return? Can somebody answer me?
Best regards,  
Bern Jurecic, astrologer, Slovenia
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #3 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
1. There are strong 9th House leanings in this chart, with Pluto in Leo in his 9th, and the potential chart ruler Jupiter strong near his 11th. Also, he has his powerful Moon in Aries in his 5th. I see that his Moon is in a very strong double-sextile formation with Venus and Uranus, he is very motivated and very charming. What might stem his popularity somewhat is a need to be in charge and hold a position over others, with his Sun and Mercury in Capricorn. He might not trust others with responsibilities and have the 'gotta do it myself' attitude if he wants it done right. But a somewhat hard and harsh disposition can be offset by a good sense of humor and generosity to others which he has in his Jupiter. He may lack confidence in matters where he does not have his hands on things. 8th House Saturn in Cancer lacks trust in others, and he may have the feeling that only he knows how things should be. He may keep some crucial information or activities in an important matter to himself, which can alienate some of the people who he works closely with. 2. With Jupiter where it is in his chart, near his 11th, he could easily promise more than he can honestly deliver, and Neptune is square his Sun, so some of these things may be unrealistic or impracticable. He may make some big moves(or words) that can really offend someone, and this is not a good thing to do while Pluto is moving over your Mars. In Nov 2004, Jupiter moves over his Neptune(after making his return), and comes square to his Sun/Mercury, he is liable to overstep some important bounds or principles. Uranus will be in Pisces, his 4th House, square to his own Uranus, this can signal the garden-variety mudslinging, dredging up things from his past and emotional life to impede him(with that Neptune square, I would advise him to take it in stride). Neptune is now conjunct his Venus in his 3rd, so I kind of wonder whether his opponents will pull an Andrew Jackson on him and try to dredge up old adulterous affairs(nothing new). He really needs to look out for his personal safety, he may be blind to the actions of secret enemies, thinking he has it all covered. That Pluto conjunction to his Mars can signal personal danger, especially to a man who is so direct. 3. Interesting about 'sleep discipline'. He has a Capricorn (discipline) Sun that can put a strong brake on all the fire activity, stop things where they are. The ruler of that sign, Saturn, is in the 8th House, in Cancer(both are aspects of sleep). Thanks
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #4 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
Given that Mr Clark is not sure as to the exact birth time; it is probably wise that we ask the question, does this natal chart befit the man? It is noticeable that there are no important luminaries on the angle which is unusual for such an individual who has attained so much, although naturally this is not a hard & fast rule. I suggest that he was born one hour later , which would make Mars rising and angular plus it would position Jupiter nearer the M.C. Incidently, with reference to one study by a French statician, it was found that generals & politicians are more more likely to be born when Jupiter was angular; at the AC or the MC. Similarly with Soldiers with regard to Mars.
Mr John Morley.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #5 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
Mr Morley below has some very good points, however I would like to offer this counterpoint. Clark is a career soldier, and is likely to have had more than the average amount of access to and contact with his birth information. So much in the military depends upon this, because you need the certificate to cross national boundaries and checkpoints, foreign and domestic, to prove your citizenship and identity, which Mr Clark has no doubt had to do many times. The birth certificate is the final word, not only in astrology, but also to the US Customs Service, who can turn you back if you don't have a copy of it on you. Plus, there is no indication that Clark was unsure of his birthtime, though one might assume that.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #6 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Gene Ray
 
Hello all
I am going to avoid comments that require a correct time of birth since the time is suspect. One can quickly see that Uranus is involved in his impulsive bid for the Democrat nomination. I allow a 3 degree orb for progressions and transits and upon his entry in this race the following two aspects involving Uranus were present.
Progressed Moon was conjunct Natal Uranus Transiting Uranus was conjunct Progressed Sun
Uranus brings sudden attention and seeming sucess,often followed by sudden failure. Walter Mondale had a P Sun conjunct N Uranus when he ran for the Senate a couple of years ago. Often this means sudden up and just as sudden down.
Its interesting that you do not mention this man's supposed brillance mentally. I keep hearing these reports. One would have to abandon the Astrolgical axiom that the Sun's rays burns out the best of a planet (in this case Mercury) by close conjunction. Mr. Clark's N Sun is within one degree of N Mercury. His N Mercury is also square N Neptune though this is a wide square. It nevertheless does not lend itself to a practical mind. The fact that both N Merury and N Sun are in Capricorn and opposed widely by its ruler Saturn is undoubtedly what allowed him to suceed in a strict system like the military. He needed that strict structure to suceed. His mentality imporved with P Mercury's movement into Aquarius because this gave him a Progressed to Natal mutual reception to N Uranus in Gemini. This delusion about his intelect was believeable because his P Moon in the 7th of others is trine Nepune in his 3rd house. In others it was pretty easy to sell the average guy that he was very bright. This will pass soon.
His chart ruler Pluto is the most elevated planet in his Natal chart (if the birth time is close to correct) and this gives him the opportunity for fame.  
His chart ruler Pluto (transiting)is also now conjunt Mars in his Natal 1st and this give him the energy or impulse to run. Within four months the P Moon will come to oppositon to this T Pluto conjunct N Mars aspect and then he is likely to prove his own worst enemy through what he says. We have seen some indication of this already.
Gene Ray Founder, The Astrologers Fourm
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #7 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anya
 
1. Confidence: Scorpio rising, Mars in Sag in first house, Also Moon in Aries will never want to concede second place to anyone, is full of confidence and bravado. While normally this Aries Moon would be a flash in the pan, the Sco-Cap combo in this chart makes it very long lasting and enduring. 2. Probably not, because although the Mars denotes him as Asc ruler, and ruler of Moon, Mars does not have such good aspects, and is not natally related to Pluto. At the same time, transiting Uranus is still aspecting his Asc by square, though, so anything could happen. After seeing this chart, with its 3 opppositions involving the Lights (4, if you count the wide Mars opp Uranus across the horizon), I think he has many hidden enemies and attacks will come from unexpected sources (Venus, ruler of 11th [friends]and 6th [military] by Placidus), is opposed by Pluto). Moreover, Moon opp Nep unfortunately gives him inability to see others clearly. However, I think the man has considerable charm (Mars sxt Venus, etc) and he doesn't seem forbidding to me. Also Jupiter and Neptune in 10th (Placidus) is a great visionary combination. 3. Dominating willpower. Capricorn Sun conjunct (combust) Mercury. (This would also give him inability to understand others' viewpoints). Also, Scorpio Asc, Moon in Aries, Saturn is the only water planet (not swayed by empathy), Moon square Saturn (discipline), Venus opposed to Pluto (this man will not get emotions and females get in his way). I think the ability to go sleep at will is something to be looked up to and can indicate unacknowledged spiritual/magical powers (Sco-Cap combo, Moon-Neptune, Venus-Pluto). This man is not to be ignored. Because of the many oppositions in his chart, I think he should really look after his health.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #8 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User david ryan
 
A big thank you to Betsy Stang for obtaining the birth data on General Wesley Clark. I was hoping it would pop up soon. It confirms my already well shaped suspicion that this could well be tbe next President of the United States, and since my own interpretation of his birth data suggests he is into astrology, there should not be too much leeway on the birth data.
You can see the full reading at www.kozmikhoroscopes.com/clark.htm
But a few pointers. The wide conjunction of Neptune, Jupiter and Chiron all in the 10th house (placidus) indicates someone with healing gifts in his public role. Ironically it may take a Jewish descent leader to sort out the Middle East.
Picture the scenario a year from now with the American electorate getting restive at a war that has bogged down through mismanagement where the population has been turned hostile by inept actions.
And since this is a war against terror, the suitability of a proven tough cookie - have a look at his chart reading - who gets things done will be very clear to the electorate.  
They want a line drawn in the sand - and unequivocal victory too. Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
The US chart (Uranus rising chart) indicates the country is ready for the new age and a new start come election time.
There are shadows hanging over Bush, not least a falling property market and an increasingly pronounced lurch to the extreme right. It is the economy, stupid.
The clincher for me is that with transiting Pluto and natal Mars meeting up in time for the election this is a man who punches well above his weight. He plays to win.  
The part of good fortune sits right on his fourth house cusp again indicating a shock winner in the Presidential Elections of 2004.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #9 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
The chart appears correct, as single-minded, intensely focused, and fanatical Scorpio-rising gives dominating willpower. The Capricorn Mercury-Sun gives high intelligence of a serious and stubborn nature, and square Jupiter gives Clark deserved self-confidence, although he expresses it more modestly(Virgo) than many politicians. IC ruler Neptune in wide conjunction to Jupiter in the career tenth shows social concerns extending abroad, and Ju-MC widely square natal Mars relate to his role as NATO commander in support of interventionist nation building in Kosovo.
 The coming Pluto transits of his natal Mars permit a return to being a major player in the race. His converse Ascendant opposes the Moon(giving him popularity) in late 2004, and his chart has synastries with election night Nov. 2nd, allowing his possible participation in this historic event. He declared on Sept. 17, 2003, as seventh-house ruler Venus conjoined modern MC ruler natal Chiron. This shows much criticism from opponents, but also could allow him a VP slot on the Democratic ticket. A better analysis depends on his upcoming Solar Revolution. In terms of synastry with other 2004 leaders, we find it most interesting that his Ascendant at 28*Scorpio coincides with Howard Dean's Chiron and with Dick Cheney's IC.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #10 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
 This chart seems correct, as single-minded, intensely focused, and fanatical Scorpio-rising gives dominating willpower. The Capricorn Mercury-Sun gives high IQ of a serious and stubborn nature, and square Jupiter gives Clark deserved self-confidence, expressed more modestly(Virgo) than by many politicians. The IC ruler Neptune widely conjunct Jupiter in the career tenth is a traditional position for "self-made men", and shows social concerns extending abroad. The wide MC-Ju square to Mars relates to his role as NATO commander in support of interventionist nation building in Kosovo.
 The coming Pluto transits of his natal Mars permit a return to being a major player in the race. His converse Ascendant opposes natal Moon(giving him popularity) in late 2004, and his chart has synastries with election night Nov. 2nd, allowing his possible participation in this historic event. He announced on Sept. 17, 2003, as seventh-house ruler Venus conjoined modern MC ruler natal Chiron. This shows much criticism from opponents, but could also permit a VP slot on the Democratic ticket. A better analysis will depend on his upcoming Solar Revolution. In terms of synastry with other 2004 leaders, we find it interesting that his Ascendant at 28*Scorpio coincides with Howard Dean's Chiron and with Dick Cheney's IC.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #11 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Robin Welch
 
Hi, all. From a Vedic perspective, I will go out on a limb and say that General Clark will not win the election in Nov '04. He is sincere (Moon in Revati, a Mercury star in Pisces, aspected by Jupiter), something I was curious about. He also sincerely didn't like it when he was "dissed" by the Republicans (Moon in 5th getting the harsh aspect of natural malefic Saturn)! The "Stick", Saturn, Rx at 14 Degrees Gemini, makes a tighter aspect to the 18 degree Moon in the 5th house of politics than the "Carrot" Jupiter at 3 degrees (a remark was attributed to him along the effects of "I would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned my call"....) He has Mars extremely strong in its own sign in Scorpio in the Ascendant; this is a "Ruchaka Yoga"--the military aspect. Mars is his "AtmaKaraka," Soul Indicator, also: his greatest lessons in life will center around this Mars, the soul of a warrior. This Mars is also his dasa ruler--(major period ruler). But the timing is not good during the election with: 1-the sub-period ruler being Saturn, in the eighth house from Mars and the Ascendant, as it happens. This is a difficult position for any two rulers during their ruling periods, but Saturn is also receiving the 8th aspect of 6th (MT)lord and enemy Mars, along with 10th lord and enemy Sun. (This same Sun-Saturn aspect especially in the separative Nodal axis could indicate the loss of his father during childhood; and the 8th house ruler Mercury is conjunct the Sun the natural indicator of father, the 8th and 12th houses being among other things, houses of loss. Also, 9th lord --Father--Moon rules the 9th house, is aspected by Saturn). Saturn in his chart aspects the 10th house of Career as well as its ruler the Sun. Saturn is involved in a "Kahala Yoga" for strong will, by the way: Saturn as ruler of the 4th house in a kendra from (in the 4th house from, or in an angle from the ruler of the 9th, the Moon), with the Ascendant ruler Mars strong. The 9th ruler Moon in the 5th constitutes a "Raj Yoga"(Royal Yoga), good for politics in the 5th; along with Saturn, Jupiter aspects this Moon. But, he will not be able to just quickly jump in and win; too bad Jupiter sub-period will have passed by then (by election day). Jupiter ruler of the 2nd and 5th (the 5th ruling politics in Vedic)in the 11th house aspected by the fortunate 9th ruler Moon (in the 5th!) 2- The transits are not in his favor on election day, with Saturn in the 5th from the Moon and 9th from the Ascendant; Mars in the unfortunate 8th from the Moon and 12th from the Ascendant. The Sun his 10th ruler is transiting in the 8th also. Jupiter will be very strong in the 7th from the Moon and in the 11th from the Ascendant--but unless the birthtime is off, Jupiter doesn't get enough help with the other planets in adverse positions; the Moon does get a bindu (a benefic point in transit) from natal Mercury until 7 PM Election Day, but that's it. One lone bindu that Jupiter receives from the natal Sun, with adverse dasa and sub-period ruler positions. One interesting thing: the 12th house rules sleep (and other comforts of the bed); Venus is the ruler of the 12th (moolatrikona)in the 3rd house of will! Also, as 12th ruler --a house of loss, shows a wound in the shoulder & hand. I don't know about the hip and leg wounds, don't see it right off hand, but angular Mars (in the Ascendant) and Saturn (from the Moon) can mean wounds and scars in general(no pun intended; OK, slight pun intended). Mars in 9th from Moon could be hips, Saturn as karaka (indicator) of knees and calves under harsh aspects from its enemy Sun, and 8th ruler Mercury, perhaps? General Clark has a very strong 6th house under the Vedic system of measuring strength ("bala") of houses ("bhava"), under his bhava bala his 6th house measures 9.14 and his Ascendant measures 8.90--both very strong, and Mars the ruler of both has a measure of 1.61 which is 61% over the "strong" threshold. 6th house themes of competion and good health on the plus side and ememies, jealousy, and wounds on the rougher side, will be important in his life.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #12 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Raghu Panikker
 
The biography here says Mr. Clark's father died when he was 5. The "New Yorker" article to which a link is given says "Benjamin Kanne died in his sleep when Wesley was almost four". Which is correct? When I did a Google search, many websites seem to have picked up the "5 year" story but I found a couple of sites supporting the "New Yorker" including the Wikipedia site that gave the year of death as 1948. I am inclined to believe the "New Yorker" since a series of directions and transits occurred within one month of Mr. Clark's 4th birth day indicating death/separation. These details are crucial to check the correctness of the birth data.  
One date which is undisputed is 2/19/1970 when he was seriously wounded. The directed ASC was exactly opposing the natal SATURN/URANUS triggering the natal predisposition PLUTO=SATURN/URANUS("harm through force majeure") and contacted natal PLUTO after 10 months. ASC=PLUTO direction corresponded to "a drastic or radical change of one's circumstances in life","Will-power","convalescence".On 2/19/1970,transiting SUN was contacting natal(MARS/PLUTO) and transiting (URANUS=MARS/PLUTO) was contacting natal SATURN. Mr. Clark was abruptly told to leave his post early on or about July 26,1999 resulting in his premature retirement in April 2000. This time directed MC was closely contacting the same SATURN/URANUS triggering once again "harm through force majeure" and 9 months later directed MC contacted natal PLUTO corresponding to "readjustment of one's circumstances in life,attainment of greater independence than enjoyed hitherto"(retirement!). Transiting Saturn was contacting natal SUN in the last week of July 1999. Thus the reported time 5:43AM seems to support the two major events though one would like to find more(involving Asc and Mc).
Looking at the natal chart, we have SUN=MERCURY=JUPITER in longitude corresponding to the intellectual and SUN=MARS=PLUTO in declination(very close parallels) corresponding to the soldier. We have also SUN=NEPTUNE and MOON=SATURN contributing to SATURN=NEPTUNE=SUN/MOON which somewhat spoiled the big promise of the intellectual soldier contacts. SATURN=NEPTUNE corresponded to "cautiousness,foresight,strong preoccupation with oneself, a struggle between idealistic and materialistic tendencies". A critical assessment of Mr. Clark's life would reveal a lot about this particular contact. SUN parallel MARS has manifested in positive and negative fashion.This contact not only contributed to his "will to live,vitality and vigour,activity" but also "failures caused by too heavy demands made upon oneself and upon others,a strained relationship with other persons".
When he announced Presidential candidacy on 9/17/03,transiting SUN was in close contact with natal PLUTO-yet another verification of SUN/PLUTO contacts and "Striving for Power". But transiting Neptune was also making a partile opposition to natal PLUTO and when it stationed in the last week of October,his campaign was reported to be fading away(as per the link no. 3 after biography). In February and March 2004, transiting Saturn will be contacting natal SATURN=NEPTUNE=SUN/MOON when the main primaries take place pointing to a very hopeless situation for Mr. Clark. Transiting Jupiter may help in the first week of March when it transits MC but that is not strong enough to loosen the grip of Saturn transit followed by another stationary transit of Neptune on VENUS=SUN/JUPITER in March-July 2004. All quotations above are from Ebertin's COSI .Only hard-aspects(multiples of 45 degree) are considered.The orbs for transits and directions were restricted to one degree(much less in most cases).
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #13 - on: 14.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User ww.kellysurtees.com
 
His Pluto sits on the US north node, his Venus sits on the US south node, with his IC sitting on the US Moon. His Mars is also opposite the US Mars - they will both be triggered by transitting Pluto in the coming 12 months. The fact that Gen Wesley's Pluto is on the US North Node suggests he has a role to play in the transformation his country is undergoing. If the country is ready he is the leader.
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #14 - on: 15.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Raghu Panikker
 
I want to add the following to my earlier comments: Mr.Clark has a clean MC since MC=SUN/ASC=MERCURY/ASC=JUPITER/ASC=MOON/VENUS=PLUTO/NODE and Uranus squares it. MC=URANUS correspond to "the pursuit of one's objective with the greatest energy" among other things. Ebertin also gives the biological correspondence for MC=URANUS as "Controlled breathing activity.(Yogi formula)". Controlled breathing can help people fall asleep more quickly. Now, a well-trained and disciplined soldier will always try to manage his sleep efficiently and Mr. Clark was able to achieve this easily due to the natal predisposition MC=URANUS. (This verifies the correctness of the reported time).
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #15 - on: 18.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User R.J.
 
The most prominent aspect in the natal chart of retired General Wesley Clark features a cardinal "grand-cross" linking the Sun and Mercury in Capricorn, Saturn in Cancer, his natal Moon in Aries and finally, Neptune and Chiron in Libra. This is the birth chart of a dynamic individual who has both the "battle" and life experience one would expect in a world leader, but its should be pointed out that Clark lacks political experience and has limited expereince as either a politician or an elected official ? (Most of his previous positions in the military have come about through political appointments). Clark's natural abilities as a leader and his ability to rise up in the world, in spite of many obstacles, is an inspiration to everyone. However, according to his chart, his path in politics is not necessarily a smooth one or even a meteoric rise ? I would say that with Clark's grand-cross negatively impacting the Sun, Venus and Jupiter in Cancer of the U.S. constitution chart (his Saturn sits on top of that stellium while his natal Moon squares the stellium) Clark's chances of becoming president of the Unites States - either now or in the future - are not good. I'll predict here that he will not be president. The reason is he isn't likely to win the support of the American public (or the Democratic party) at this time or in future ? In politics, public appeal is just as important as credentials. One negative attribute publicized about Clark (and confirmed through his chart) is his tendency to be a control freak and domineering, while stepping on the toes of those close to him ? (That is a trait or behaviour consistent with those who have natal Sun in Capricorn, and Moon in Aries ?) (Politics tends to be a team "sport" - it's not a sport for "dictators" (at least not in this democratic country ?!) For the most part, President G.W. Bush got elected, mostly because he tricked the public by modifying or altering his personality (natal Sun in the 12th house) to give the false impression (to voters) that he was a political moderate. Then, after assuming the White House, his true colours (that of a "dictator") presented themselves ? Meantime, Bush's natal Neptune in 5 degrees Libra squares the natal Sun, Venus and Jupiter in Cancer of the United States natal chart !) According to synastry experts, whenever the Sun is in contact with Neptune (between two charts), the Sun person (here represented by the American public) cannot see the Neptune person (Bush?) clearly ? The end result is victimization and disillusionment on the part of the Sun person ? I would imagine that if Clark were to become president (which is highly unlikely) he would also expereince dips or swings in popular support and he too may attempt to deceive the public (his natal Neptune in Libra squares the Cancer stellium in the U.S chart ?) The astrology John Townley once wrote an excellent book on synastry (The Astrology of Relationships, but I believe I may stand to be corrected on the title ?). According to Townley, if you wish to teach a business rival or associate a "lesson", send the rival a person with Neptune conjunct or in close aspect to their ascendant or natal Sun. For even more destructive impact, send a person who's natal Neptune is conjunct the rival's Mars. According to Townley, the Neptune person will always weaken and frustrate the Mars person and sap that person of his/her strength and energy ! Townley's comments (which were written more than 15 years ago) actually hold water in today's political scene ?) For example, President George Bush has natal Mars in Virgo and his progressed and SA Sun is conjunct his natal Mars throughout 2003. Meantime, Saddam Hussein (arguably Bush's key political rival ?) has natal Neptune in Virgo, conjoining Bush's Mars and SA Sun in Virgo ! The bottom line is, six months after the war in Iraq, the Bush administration still can't touch Hussein, find him or even capture him ! Another example of John's Townley research would be seen in the synastry between P.L.O. chairman Yasser Arafat and Isreali Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. It seems very interesting that the Isrealis and Ariel Sharon cannot remove Yassar Arafat from office, even though I'm sure they have tried everything, short of assisinating the old man ! In the birth chart between Arafat and Sharon, Arafat's natal Neptune in Virgo makes a close opposition to Sharon's natal Sun in Pisces, while Arafat's Neptune squares Sharon's natal Moon in Pisces ! You can imagine how disillusioned Sharon is about Arafat, but I'd say his chances of gaining the upper hand over Arafat (or kicking him out of office) are slim to none !
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #16 - on: 18.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User AE Ramey
 
Thanks so much for posting this!
1) Self confidence - comes from remarkable intelligence and years of success, I think.
2) I don't understand "Pluto is coming up to conjoin his Mars," but as of today (11/18/03) he is in first- or second-place in the national polls.
3) The willpower you described in Chapter Two in relationship to his sleeping regimen and "fierce determination."
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #17 - on: 19.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Catherine Clark (no relation to the General, just a supporter)
 
p>Very fascinating chart -- thanks for posting it. It would be nice to have an independent confirmation of the birth time, though -- I would have picked Wes Clark for a Sag ascendant (he's awfully close, isn't he?).
My only criticism of your effort are two of the links you provide -- the clark04.com one is fine. The New Yorker piece by Peter Boyer is NOT objective about Clark's life history -- in many ways it's one of those novelistic impressions done by "reporters" nowadays where they attempt to create a "portrait" of someone. It's better to stick to facts and let the reader decide for themselves, I think. (I did a critique of Boyer's piece -- will mail it to you at your e-mail address.) A better biography was done by the Boston Globe, in two parts, 11/16/03 and 11/17/03. It makes for fun reading, and doesn't "novelize." Why don't you update your link with the Boston Globe story?
Second, I'd also urge you replace the Fox News link on the "Collapse of the Clark Campaign." As Mark Twain once said, "the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated!" As of 11/19/03, Clark leads or is in second place in nearly all national and state polls, and his campaign is raising lots of money. I think the initial "stumbles", which the Fox network interpreted as a "collapse", may have been due to the temporary influence of a retrograde Mercury on the day that Clark declared his candidacy. But this influence hasn't persisted. (Fox, BTW, is financed by a foreigner, the right-wing Australian Rupert Murdoch and is not always as objective as it should be.)
At any rate, your astrological analysis is super -- I had wanted to see one, and here it is!
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #18 - on: 19.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Catherine Clark (no relation to the General)
 
Hi...
Was reading the interpretation of the General Clark chart and have some problems/reservations:
The Merlin interpretation is well integrated, but has flaws in some of the aspects listed. For example, in Chapter 6, one of the aspects listed is MC Opposition Moon/Venus. But the MC is in Virgo; the Moon in Aries and Venus in Aquarius. So the MC cannot be in opposition! There are a couple of other of these aspects in error that I have noted (am only on page 9 of 13).  
The Indra report, from what I have scanned, is not well integrated -- that is, weighted to give prominence to the aspects that are really important. The way it is written, every little aspect is verbally given the same interpretive tone, and thus weight, even if it is a little quinqunx. This makes it hard to evaluate the overall character of the chart.
Finally, the chart visually portrayed on the first page has the beginning of each house at 28 degrees -- even though the correct start of each house is given in the text. So when the Merlin interpretation starts to talk about the Moon in the fourth house, and one looks at the chart, the moon shows up in the fifth house! This is very confusing!
In general, it would be better to assign values to the strength of the aspects (closer would have more strength), and to then assign these in the order in which they fit within the overall profile (in this case a fire/earth chart, and a chart with a particularly strong t-square). The minor aspects should be diminished in value, I think.  
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re: Wesley K Clark
« Reply #19 - on: 21.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Pete Watson
 
Is Wesley Clark going to win? - Having seen the present incumbent of the post just visit this country, claiming to make the world a 'safer place' as bombs go off and people die in such a dire and tragic mess (both Bush and Blair have, tellingly, badly played out lacks in their charts - Bush has no planets in universal signs while Blair has only Uranus in water) and inordinate sums of money are spent protecting him, I would hope so. But looking at the Astro-Geography, I suspect "Yes!" is the answer. I think astro geography says a lot of basic stuff about the basic fate of a big player like a politician. Clark also has Sun, Mercury and Venus in hard aspect to the Aries point, indicative of 'world impact' (Blair has Sun/Moon and Ascendant/MC midpoints conjunct the Aries point). The leader's chart reflects the nation's fate, to a substantial degree - it follows that astro-geography will have a lot to say about how these two things might play out during the person's time in office.
Clark has the following positions: - 1) A Jupiter-Uranus paran just East of Washington DC (Uranus setting (also through NY) and Jupiter-MC). This is about as fortunate as you can get, especially if you wish to impose a new philosophy and brighten things up after GWB. I think this city might be important in world politics.. 2) Pluto exactly on the MC over Hollywood - I'm British so I don't know but would suspect some big Hollywood support to come in and help swing things for him with charisma and cash. 3) Venus rising exactly through London. This Venus line also runs through a further European capitals, Lisbon and Oslo. These countries are going to like him. A lot. I think Gorbachev has Venus through London too. 4) Pluto setting through the admin centre of the European Union, Brussels. This is also near the Hague, where all the war crimes trails, such as Milosevic's, are held. 5) Uranus anticulminating through Madrid. 6) Four planets making spectacular parans right over Stockholm, including a top political paran Mercury/Pluto EXACTLY over the Swedish capital. 7) Saturn and Neptune lines close to Athens where the Olympics will be. Does this mean drug testing or just excellence? - It makes sense to me. Anyway the Olympics will have happened before he comes to power (if he does). Maybe they'll be some tragedy or incident and he'll have to deal with the fallout. 8) Node line EXACTLY through Moscow - a people the US is now friends with and vice versa. Lovely. And makes sense - like all of this seems to. 9) Moon EXACTLY through Kiev and Chernobyl. 10) Venus setting close to Tokio. 11) Jakarta - Jupiter on the IC. 12) Uranus rising very near Kabul. Hopefully he'll be able to clear this country up. But it could get chaotic.. 13) NOTHING through Baghdad. BUT relocation chart gives Pluto square Ascendant by 36' and Uranus -135- MC by 13' note that Uranus/Pluto exactly describes the world GWB and Blair are provoking by meeting violence with violence (creating - guess what? More violence and danger) and Bush has exact septile (to do with fantasy) with Sun on midpoint of these. I hope Clark can do something here, but it's obviously going to be a challenge; whoever follows what's happening right now faces a huge set of really nasty problems. 14) Mars culminating over other important European Union cities of Strasbourg and Luxembourg as well as Geneva (Mars over Geneva could be read as 'upholding human rights'). 15) There are more - have a look!
These parans and lines and relocational factors are not random and I think they show a lot about the state/fate of the world a leader steps into; the state and fate described by these factors certainly seems to make a lot of sense.
With Jupiter and Pluto highly active in his chart next January 20th I think it almost certain, if it's Clark versus Bush, this man will win. Note also that he has Uranus-Uranus and Plto-Pluto hard aspect transits for 2005, which describe the kind of world he is likely to inherit.
Living in a country where birth times aren't recorded and seeing this birth time from a state where I believe they are and then these stunning correlations I am convinced that he is quoting his birth certificate from memory.
I also think he could be an excellent leader and could restore some sanity and safety to a world which has seen these qualities eroded recently by both US and UK leaders' misguided rhetoric and dangerous actions. Violence breeds violence, enough said.
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