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Astro-Databank: Joseph Lieberman (Read 109 times)
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Astro-Databank: Joseph Lieberman
« on: 04.08.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Joseph Lieberman, born 24 February 1942 at 02:30 AM in Stamford CT
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

Before updated the birth time, we had asked:
  • How does Lieberman "balance the ticket" astrologically?
  • Does knowing the VP chart help predict the winning team?
  • Both of these VP candidates are considered conservative. Do these charts give you insights into what drives their conservative instincts?
 
Now that we have an updated birth time, we add these questions:
  • Does his updated birth time give a better focus to the question about his chances for becoming the next vice-president?
  • Can you find his deep religiosity in his chart?
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #1 - on: 20.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Steve Zephyr
 
Dick Cheney is conservative, more as a matter of public policy, than how he may sometimes let on in private. His personal thinking style enjoys a good discussion, and can even be intellectually combative at times (Mercury squares over Uranus).  
Cheney is a pragmatist at heart (Chiron over-opposition Venus). So, contrary to any rumors about Cheney's personal cravings for power, Cheney is actually a firm believer in the ordered chain of command (Sun over-squares his Saturn). Cheney feels that blunt displays of power are rarely needed, and can be unseemly if genuine authority can find a more convincing alternative. Cheney believes that some fanfare is unavoidable, because prestige is more than an entitlement, belonging to the privileges of the office which he occupies (Sun over-opposition to Pluto), prestige is frequently an effective political tool.  
Incidentally, the day Cheney got the nod for the Republican ticket, transiting Pluto was exactly sextile his natal Sun, triggering his natal Sun-Pluto opposition aspect, making Bush's need for him, unmistakably clear.  
As for Cheney's personal relationship with George Bush, there should be no misconceptions. Cheney does like George Bush's policies, and even agrees with Bush's political and philosophical aims (Moon-Cancer Ruler - sextile Saturn and Jupiter). However, on a personal level, Cheney does NOT admire George W. Bush, neither as an individual, nor as a man (Moon square Mars, opposition to Neptune).  
Cheney will only go as far as to demonstrate that he understands his role as Vice President, say no more. Cheney believes he can work with (around?) George W. Bush. But, privately, Cheney does not approve of Bush's over-dependence upon others (his father) for the success of his own public persona and political career.  
At times, Bush actually embarrasses Dick Cheney!! - even to the point that Bush says and does things which Cheney would like to publicly disassociate himself from entirely (Moon square Mars, opposed to Neptune). Whatever he says in private, however, little of this will come out in the media, as direct quotes from Cheney's own lips.  
Dick Cheney decided long ago, that too much information can be just as bad, as not enough. Cheney suspects that others often try to catch him off guard, perhaps tricking him into saying something unguarded. Cheney is likes to believe he usually ready for that (Mercury over-square Uranus). He has a collection of tight-lipped coy responses, that will clearly warn questioners that they are getting too just a tad bit too noisy.  
In short, Cheney will do best where he can be his own commander-in-chief. Cheney will accept all the perks of the office in stride, and perhaps even gain the reputation for being one of the nation's more frank, well-informed, and intelligent speakers, this country has ever had in a Vice-President.  
Cheney loves to say things that make people think. He especially enjoys it if his audience begins to suspect that they are only getting most, but not all of the information, they were seeking from him (Mercury over-square Uranus).
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #2 - on: 29.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anon.
 
I think Gore is going to win the presidency in the end based on Lieberman's transits alone and a strong gut feeling. The transits that jump at me are: Jupiter, ruler of Ascendant, almost exactly conjunct descendant, other people will help him and be favourable to him at this time. Saturn transiting his Uranus, loosely conjunct 7th house cusp, natally the two planets are in conjunction and Saturn has harmonious aspects to MC and Neptune there.- he's got good 'other people and high status karma' coming. Pluto just past conjunction to Asc, opposing Jupiter and Moon in 7th (Big changes, natally these planets are linked in a very wide harmonious sextile so the changes are benefic). Uranus trining the Jup/Ura conjunction, already in natally wide conjunction - more good luck. Transiting Neptune conjuncts his natal Venus/Mercury conjunction in Aquarius (Venus is conjunct the ruler of MC, of high status and office, Neptune is conjunct MC natally = his dreams come true).
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #3 - on: 28.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User H Harper
 
Upon looking at this chart before the election I saw it as a minus against Bush's chances as I could not see this man succeeding. The Neptune transit which moved direct on the MC opposing Pluto and coming into orb of a sq to Saturn/Jupiter in the 12th of hospitals etc., and Conjunction to his natal Sun indicated disappointment and a failure to achieve the goals his ego drives may have been aiming for. Neptune/Saturn aspects are often linked to health problems and with the added debilitation and draining of energy from his Sun/Pluto power, his recent hospitalization is explained and as the aspects are not yet exact it is hard to see a success story. Neptune has been a major factor in this election, it opposed Bill Bradley's Sun by transit which made it obvious he was unlikely to succeed and it also is in orb of the Descendant for both Gore and Bush which explains the accusations of dishonesty leveled at both and the problems since election day.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #4 - on: 10.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Without a data-based rectification we must keep an open mind, but Tony Louis's 7AM chart works quite well for us. As examples, an important synastry is Lieberman's Pluto conjunct Gore's Ascendant at 4*Leo. On the night of Aug. 6th, when Mars exactly transited natal ninth-house ruler Pluto in the sixth, Al communicated (Joe's natal Mars in third) the VP nomination, transforming (Pluto) Joe into a virtuous (sixth) elder brother (ninth) albeit in a subordinate (sixth) role. A similar interpretation could be made for the Pluto-Chiron conjunction itself (Chiron rules Virgo), but otherwise Pluto in the eighth on the 2-3AM chart does not fit in. Also, on March 9, 1989(Sun at 19*Pisces square natal Moon at 19*Gemini), Joe broke with Chris Dodd to vote against confirmation of Texas Senator John Tower as Bush Sr.'s Defense Secretary. Tower's defeat has now put Cheney where he is. While not proving the 7AM chart, this is an interesting coincidence for those who study synchronicities.  
The Gemini Jupiter-Pisces Sun square slightly exceeds the standard 6* orb, but since Jupiter conjuncts and the Sun squares the IC, there is a pulling-together effect. Jupiter relates to values, and Neptune (twelfth and Pisces) relates to Judeo-Christian ideals of spiritual elevation via self-renunciation, universal love and charity, and social concern for the less fortunate. Venus (semi-sextile Sun) conjunct Mercury (trine Jupiter) in the twelfth also leads Joe to talk easily about his religiosity.  
The current political havoc involves transits of the US MC (government authority) ruler Uranus (US chart= July 4, 1776, 3:00AM, Philly). Bush and Gore were formally nominated in July and August, but in practice they became the candidates when McCain and Bradley dropped out on March 9, 2000 (Uranus exactly transiting US natal Moon at 18*38' Aquarius). On Nov. 7, 2000, Jupiter had just retrograded US natal twelfth-house Uranus in Gemini, providing an unusual potential for press confusion (the Florida miscalls) and political mischief.  
Having already thrice predicted a Bush win on AstroDatabank (see Aug. 24, 2000 "Comments" on Tipper Gore specifically mentioning Bush as electoral college favorite), we feel that legal maneuvering on Gore's behalf should not stop W. from being the next US president. Both Joe's ruler Uranus and Al's Venus square the US MC at 26*Aquarius, but their real problem is Algol also at 26*Taurus. Joe's twelfth-house ruler Saturn will retrograde natal Uranus on Dec. 1st and will form a yod with transiting Mars and Sun when the electoral college meets on Dec. 18th. On Inauguration Day, Saturn is ending retrogression at 24*Taurus, conjunct Joe's natal Mars and opposite Al's natal Chiron at 24*Scorpio. Interpreting by synastry, this is spoiler Ralph Nader's exact IC/MC axis (see AstroDatabank chart)!!! Nader saw Bush and Gore as the corporate-owned toadies Tweedledum and Tweedledee, cutting (Mars) Joe's and wounding (Chiron) Al's bid.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #5 - on: 10.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anthony Louis
 
 Given the surprising course of the November 7th vote, I reviewed the chart for the May 28, 2000 Jupiter-Saturn conjunction and compared it to the USA Gemini-rising chart. The Jupiter-Saturn cycle has had a major effect on the U.S. presidency. The 2000 Jupiter Saturn conjunction occurred at 22 Taurus 44' and has a strongly Uranian flavor. Jupiter and Saturn were square transiting Uranus at 20 Aquarius 49 Rx. Transiting Uranus was in the 10th house of the USA chart and conjunct the natal USA Moon, which implies surprising and disruptive events affecting the presidency. The sun on the day of the conjunction (May 28) was at 7 Gemini 37 and conjoined the natal USA Ascendant and Uranus, suggesting a major period of upheaval for this nation.  
This year Jupiter and Saturn conjoined in the USA natal 12th house, so there probably a lot going on in secret behind the scenes. It is quite possible that the misleading TV coverage and the irregularities in Florida (such as Gore's votes being counted for Buchanan) will lead to significant election reforms. I still think that Bush has the astrological edge and will assume the presidency, even though Gore may be the actual winner in both the popular and electoral vote, were it not for the voting irregularities that caused thousands of Gore votes to be discarded in Palm Beach.  
It appears that the early network projections giving Florida to Gore on the basis of exit polls were, in fact, accurate but got reversed as Mercury made its station. Uranus is full of surprises and works in mysterious ways. Along with Uranus, Mercury making a station on election day adds a strong dose of the trickster archetype to this year's election.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #6 - on: 06.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marguerite
 
Dear Mark & Lois:  
Thank you for the 2:30 time for Lieberman. If the time is 2:35 then his progressed ascendant conjuncts natal Venus and the eclipse at 8 Leo activates it. The eclipse was also on Gore's progressed Venus at 10 Leo. This is another indication that gore wins the election in my opinion.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #7 - on: 02.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Glenn Harris
 
Lieberman:  
Religiosity - Neptune is prominent in this chart (the 2:30 am chart) in several ways.  It is on the MC.  It is on the Aries Point (0 degrees Libra), suggesting that Lieberman will project Neptunian energy.  The Sun is in Pisces, showing that his core life energy is Piscean.  The Sun is unaspected and rules the 9th House, so that 9th House issues, including religion, law, etc. are very, very important to Lieberman.  All of this suggests a person who wants to transcend everyday life, get in touch with a higher cause or energy.  The 9th House emphasis suggests that Lieberman will turn to religion to achieve this transcendence.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #8 - on: 31.10.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anthony Louis
 
Lieberman:  
Just a few comments about the "about 7 a.m." time. For years I have used 7 a.m. for Joe Lieberman's birth chart. As a native of southern Connecticut, I have had contact over the years with Senator Lieberman and members of his family. In the early to mid-1980s I asked someone close to the family for his birthtime. Since I did not get permission at that time, I cannot now reveal my source except to say it was someone very close to the family. The person I asked then questioned members of the family for the birthtime. My recollection is that the 7 a.m. came either directly from his mother or from a note in a family record (perhaps a family Bible -- this is a vague recollection and I may be confusing this with someone else). Unfortunately, I did not record that bit of data and my memory for a piece of information from 15 to 20 years ago is not clear. I did record the 7 a.m. time, since I had it on good authority. In addition, a chart for 7 a.m. seemed to "work" for events in the Senator's life.  
In any case, a morning time seems fairly certain since both sources agree: some time between 2 a.m. and 7 a.m., but I wish I had kept better notes.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #9 - on: 31.10.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Pankaj
 
Lieberman's Ascendant is close to fixed star Antares ... would this make a difference? A benefic on a sensitive point of Rahu-90degrees, here-Gemini 13 deg-Jupiter close to this point and saturn having moved away -- his is a good time.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #10 - on: 29.10.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill
 
Lieberman:  
 1. A lot of his strength is around the 7th House Cusp....seems to work better as half of a pair....compensating for the lacks of his partner....  
2. There is a lack of strong fire in this chart, perhaps compensated for by having Sagittarius rising and a strong Jupiter....but there isn't half the motivation here that we find in Gore's chart...who probably has enough for the both of them...but there is strong Air here, he can certainly aid in decision making and cool down any potential for hasty or overly righteously indignant moves on Gore's part....Gore with his strong Leo combo might find Joe a bit stuffy in some ways, kind of stodgy and restrained (due to the strong Taurus combination)....as we know motivation and definite desire to win is the key to winning...reading the bio here kind of revealed to me that Joe tends to struggle with doubt for long periods before deciding what he wants....he does not have a very strong Sun...though it is in a powerful position, it is "concealed" in the home(4th)...and challenged by squares, not well supported, in Pisces (I note that Gore's Mercury is in the same spot in Pisces...and the same situation!!)  
3. If I had only this chart to judge conservativeness, I would say that the squares have a big part to play..."a little freedom, but not too much please!"....both Gore and Lieberman have Mars and Saturn conjunct, though in different signs...Saturn tends to enforce limits...in Joe's chart this conjunction is combined with Uranus, bound to be interesting (get it? bound=Saturn, interesting=Uranus hehehe)...this is certainly an unusual man, though perhaps kind of wooden....  
4. Who will become the next VP is, by principle and definition, a matter of choice on the part of the people....I did not see the initial chart, so I can't say whether this one gives a better focus....  
5. His Jupiter in Gemini and close to his Moon shows that his faith is his daily bread-and-butter, combined with a Pisces Sun in the 4th there is certainly bias....extreme partiality towards certain beliefs...this might actually work against him...he has Pluto and Chiron in the Ninth...he may feel an urge to go on a crusade, which can make him unpopular (judging other's beliefs)....so yes there is religiosity here...but strong biases...
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #11 - on: 29.10.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sonja Foxe
 
Listening to newsbites of Lieberman's Notre Dame speech last night thinking damn it dude -- don't you know you can't legislate morality which was from the gist of it exactly what he was proposing, then I saw E Cass's remark regarding the first Lieberman chart regarding the dual nomination of Gore & Joe L v/o/c which summed up my feelings of their campaign thus far -- no strategy, all tactics, most of them changing -- v/o/c moon all the way. Lieberman's "new" MC conjunct Neptune his religiosity -- like Dan Quayle -- Lieberman is no John Kennedy -- Kennedy had to answer tough questions about the Pope & his independence whereas everyone has been too politically correct and polite to nail Lieberman to the cross (did I say that?) regarding Israel -- that nation's 23 Taurus sun conjuncted by the Ju/Sa of last spring  
Someone said of Dubya Bush in Talk magazine "All Hat no Cattle" -- he's not the only one -- Cheney's the only one w/cattle & the machiavellian ambition to drive his ticket to victory --  
My 15,000 word article on Tecumseh's Curse is STILL in limbo collecting rejections & dust  
Another reason to vote for Nader as my favorite potential dead (white) man walking -- since Winona LaDuke is a Native American
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #12 - on: 29.10.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Margaret Beaton
 
I'm a Lieberman astro-twin. Born 2/24/42, Chicago, at 2:58 am wartime, or 1:58 am.; Asc. 14.58 Sag. So I'm finding this latest news interesting. It's a very good time for me career-wise. Not bad for Joe either.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #13 - on: 28.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Teresa Hamilton
 
Let's see: Joe Lieberman is 58 this year. This means his mother is probably between 80 and 90 years old. The dear lady's memory might be fine, but I'm a lot younger than that and even though I'm an astrologer, the only birth time of my three children that I can remember without pulling up the horoscope on the computer or checking the birth certificate is my son's. He was born precisely at 7:11 a.m., and I remember that time because it's the name of a popular convenience store chain. And strangely enough, he's a public performer (freestyle bike riding).  
Well, back to Lieberman's chart. I rectified the earlier chart by two minutes to 7:02 a.m., because that gave the perfect navamsa chart for a man in his position, and a man who could become vice president of the United States. I like that chart. Here are my reasons:  
(1) I've been collecting photos and drawing of people with various rising degrees, and so far he looks a lot like people with ascendants in that area of the zodiac. He doesn't look anything like the photos of people with ascendants close to his using a time between 2:00 and 3:00.  
(2) As we saw at the democratic convention, Joe is personable, knowledgeable at ease, more or less a man of the people. This is very appropriate for a man with a Mercury/Venus conjunction in the first house (Jyotish houses). This is also a raja yoga combination, which is one reason he may very well become vice president of the U.S.  
(3) What convinced me that the 7:02 chart is close to correct is that Joe's solar return chart (sidereal) for this year ties in closely with Gore's natal chart:  
(a) The ascendant is 6 degrees of Sag; Gore's natal Jupiter is 5 Sag, and the Moon is nearby at 10 Sag. (b) Joe's solar return Moon is 21Li59. Gore's S.Node (Ketu) is at 22Li59.  
(4) Joe's solar return chart for this year is quite strong. He's been chosen as Al Gore's running mate. I believe that this return chart is strong enough to make him vice president.  
(5) On inaugural day Joe is right in the middle of his Saturn return: Natal Saturn: 29Ar38; Natal Mars: 0Ta42; Transiting Saturn: 0Ta18R!! Can't get much closer than that! With the 7:02 a.m. time of birth, Saturn is Joe's ascendant lord. You wouldn't think that this return would be happening precisely at this time if it didn't mark a key turning point in Joe's life.  
(6) And...With the 7:02 time of birth, Joe's IC is 14Ta30. On election day transiting Jupiter is at 14Ta58 AND navamsa Jupiter is 14Ta46. This is a powerful whammy if Joe's IC is indeed 14 Taurus. But we don't know for sure.... (This double Jupiter whammy will be on Bush's equal 11th cusp at 14Ta06. That's an almost exact sextile to his ascendant.)  
(7) On inaugural day transiting Uranus is at 25Cp55. Joe's 7:02 ascendant is 26Cp58. Transiting Neptune is at 12Cp17. Joe's natal Venus is at 12Cp36.  
(8) Joe's natal Jupiter is at 19Ta02; On election day transiting Pluto is in close opposition at 17Sc58. On inaugural day Pluto is at 20Sc38. But...get this!! In Joe's solar return for this year Pluto is in EXACT to-the-minute opposition to natal Jupiter at 19Sc02!!
All positions noted here are using the Krishnamurti ayanamsa. Transiting to natal orbs of planets will be different in the Tropical zodiac.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #14 - on: 26.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jim Shawvan
 
Cheney: This is the chart of a revolutionary, not a conservative. The guise of conservatism is shown by the ruler of the Asc in Capricorn in the 9th. In fact, he favors a radical reorganization of society to favor the corporations at the expense of most of the people.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #15 - on: 14.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Elna Nugent
 
Not only the charts of the VP candidates - but also those of the candidates' wives - can give us clues to add to the info pool.  
Transits and Prog. aspects should at least be explored.  
How will lives be changed or disrupted (or not) after election day? Even if we don't know the birth times of Laura Bush, Lynn Cheney, and Hadassah Lieberman, we can at least note whether or not there are planetary Returns in their charts or any other conjunction points of significant interest.  
Ralph Nader's chart can be studied to judge whether or not he might pull off a critical mass of support Nov.11 that could nudge Bush into power. Not simple math, this election. It is a complex mix and a difficult call.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #16 - on: 04.08.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anon.
 
as regards Lieberman's birthtime, I would place it somewhere after 7 am because pluto is probably closer to the MC, more like 9-11 degrees of Sag.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #17 - on: 28.08.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marc Waters
 
Without Cheney's proper birth time, we know nothing about him. Rising Sign is the MOST important factor in a chart politically... even the Sun/Moon combo only tells us so much without that Ascendant..!
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #18 - on: 26.08.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ruth Eli
 
 1. I'm afraid that, not being Anglo-Saxon, I don't understand the expression "balancing the ticket". So, I'll leave this question unanswered.  
2. No, I do not believe in predictions of this kind. With Pluto tr. in Lieberman's 10th and Saturn tr. activating his major Trine, it looks like Gore will be the winner. But in my opinion, these predictions can't really be trusted.  
3.Cheney's chart is exceptionally complex. On one hand, there is a tremendous need to be "different", to cultivate a public image of uniqueness. (Uranus, ruler of the 10th and 11th Houses and of the Sun is conjunct Ascendant and very active.) He will want to express this uniqueness by way of his views in general (Uranus Trine Venus in the 9th), his values (Square Mercury ruler of the 2nd.) and his attitude towards society (Sextile Moon in the 11th). Along with the need for being different, Uranus represents also the tendency to extremism. Many Uranian people, especially those who have a strong Saturn alongside with their Uranus, express their uniqueness not by being different from others but by being like them...only MORE SO, more radical and more extreme.  
Cheney does have a strong Saturn. Saturn rules his 9th House (views and convictions) and Venus in the 9th (his mental attitude towards society), it is Square the Sun (basic energy) in the 10th (public arena), it is conjunct Jupiter ruler of the 8th (the values of his social surroundings) and is situated in his 12th (innermost being, subconscious). Saturn represents limitations and rules. So, Cheney lacks the inner sense of security to "flow" with his Uranus freely. He needs the security of rules (Saturn) toughened and made extreme by a very strong Uranus. Liberalism creates a framework that is too loose, too "blurred around the edges". Cheney needs the safety of clear and unequivocal distinctions between good and bad, moral and immoral, those who deserve and those who don't.  
Then, of course, there is Pluto in the 1st., that adds an emotional compulsiveness to an already extreme personality, along with some other characteristics, which do not concern us here. Suffice it to say that he is intellectually as well as emotionally immersed in his convictions.  
Lieberman's chart is much simpler. He too has a very strong Uranus/Saturn influence in his chart which, however, is concentrated almost completely on his Mars, activity and ambition. Those 3 planets being in his 3rd., they also influence his thinking very strongly. He too can be obsessive about his convictions (Pluto ruler of the 9th Opposition Mercury and quincunx Sun), but his obsession is intellectual rather than emotional. So, although he too needs a framework of clear and definite rules to work with and exist in (which liberalism does not allow), he can give his sensitivities a freer rein and adopt a set of rules that, though conservative, is slightly more permissive than Cheney's.
While Cheney is totally immersed in his beliefs, Lieberman is not. His conservatism is a blend between an inner conviction and common sense. With his Gemini Moon and Aquarius Venus, he has the ability to "step aside" and look at situations from more than one viewpoint. He is highly motivated by ambition so that, whenever certain issues demand more flexibility, he may go along with it to some extent, to further his own interests, but also because there is a sensitivity to the needs and failings of others. Though he will never condone what he considers to be "moral" transgressions.
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re: Joseph Lieberman
« Reply #19 - on: 23.08.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Elaine Pacetti
 
 The chart on Dick Cheney is obviously an unknown birth time chart. I would prefer that a solar chart would be used with the Sun on the Asc using the 12:00 noon time. The planets would be in their mid daily motion and we would be still able to see how the luminaries and planets aspect one another. The Sun, of course is the strongest planet in the Zodiac and the Aquarian Sun does show the humanitarian side of Cheney's nature. Saturn/Jupiter squaring his Sun may show how he has felt repressed and found it necessary to prove his self worth, in a Solar chart these placements would be near the MC, giving a truer picture of this man's character. Venus in the Solar chart would be in the 12th, a caring nature for the under dog, Venus trines Uranus in the Solar 4th, underling his caring nature for his country. I am an independent voter, I always vote for the individual. It is too bad we do not have his true birth time.
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