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Astro-Databank: Ian Thorpe
« on: 15.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Ian Thorpe, born 13 October 1982 at 10:52 AM in Sydney NSW
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

  • What makes him an Olympic champion? (N.B. Mars is not in a Gauquelin plus zone. Even among the Gauquelin sports champions, Mars was in a plus zone only 220f the time. Thus 780f the time Mars was outside a plus zone in sports champions.)
  • Every internet biography mentions his trademark size 17 feet. Can you find them in his chart?
  • What do you suppose the Yod to Chiron from a Neptune/Saturn sextile means? (The sextile is exact to 12'. Does this give him discipline for water sports?)
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #1 - on: 20.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Spica
 
1) What makes an Olympic champion when even the great Gauquelin fails to light our way?  
I propose that we forget for the moment the statistical approximations of the worthy Gauquelin and try some good old fashioned astrology instead (using the Placidus house cusps) - a rare event indeed nowadays!  
What makes an Olympic champion? Well, since we cannot run until we learn to walk, so to speak, you have to first determine if he is an athlete (am I rhyming?).  
So let's start with: - What makes an athlete? Natural athleticism is shown by a strong Mars (i.e. having some degree of dignity - Gauquelin only allowed for accidental dignity - silly man!) giving physical strength and the more it is aspected the more it needs to exercise this strength. Here Mars in Sagittarius has somewhat more than average strength being in the element of fire and in the decanate of Aries so we know he is naturally physically active and likes the outdoors. But what gives this Mars its exceptional strength? - firstly it is dignified by mutual reception with Jupiter in Scorpio and then additionally the South Node in Capricorn (so Mars in this chart also combines its dignity in Scorpio with its exaltation in Capricorn). In addition, Mars is on a critical degree (a planet on a critical degree seeks a leading edge so prepared to make that extra effort) but disciplined because it is sextile an elevated Saturn. So Thorpe has great athletic potential (shown by traditional astrological analysis What shows athletic activity? 3rd house ruler connected to Mars or 1st house or 1st house ruler. Here Neptune (3rd ruler) conjuncts Mars and also is partile sextile Saturn (1st ruler) - partile aspects between direct planets always deliver what they promise. Also, note that the 3rd house cusp is well-starred conjunct Deneb Adige so this guy is gifted (as are all who are born under a bright star) athletically (also bright intellectually).  
Is he active in sports? Yes, because 5th house ruler Venus is conjunct the Sun (a personal significator) and the Sun rules the competitive 8th house so it is competitive sports this boy is into, not so much non-competitive sports as a relaxation (5th house connected to the 2nd house).  
Want to know what sport? Take the dwad sign of Venus, 5th ruler, which is Pisces and find out where the ruler is. Neptune is in the 12th which is swimming.  
Will he go to the Olympics? Well, as a swimmer he might get to represent his country because Neptune is conjunct Mars, 4th ruler (4th house is your country or nationality). With Mars in Sagittarius (the sign ruling Australia), can the Thorpedo be anything other than Australian? But to go to the Olympics, could that be seen in a chart? Well, yes, in the chart of an athlete (but not a spectator). How? 5th house is sporting events and the Olympics is the greatest of sporting events, the peak ambition of a sportsman, so find the 10th house from the 5th which is the 2nd house but being empty we look to its main ruler, Uranus. Uranus is in the 11th house of hopes and wishes and see how it is in partile sextile to Mercury on the MC - this is surely a dream come true!! Mercury rules the 6th house of great effort and hard work so he will have the opportunity to compete in the Olympic Games provided he puts in necessary effort.  
How well might he do at the Olympics? To answer this, we have to direct Uranus by age-arc of 17:39 degrees where it sextiles the Sun in the 10th which always gives some measure of fame but it also gives gold because the Sun conjuncts Venus the Metal planet (as the wise Chinese call her).  
Can we be confident that he will fulfill the promise in his chart? Well, many fail to live up to the potentials their chart promises but is such fault in the stars or ourselves? In this particular case the answer is clear - disciplined Saturn which rules the 1st and thus shows his own efforts, is direct in the 10th (goal-minded) and exalted by sign (showing public recognition for a worthy feat) conjunct the Sun who wants to shine as well as Pluto who pushes himself to the limit. And we know that he will excel as a competitor because another personal significator, the Moon, rules the competitor 7th and conjuncts the royal star Regulus, who would be king above all!  
Which is why there is such great value in good character and why astrologers say that character enables us to realise our destiny (that is, our potentials).  
2) Can we find his big feet in the chart?  
Surely yes, for each house represents the corresponding part of our anatomy and planets direct and strong therein or ruling if vacant give a size to that bodily organ proportionate to the dignity such planets carry. So what rules his feet - the 12th house, of course.
[continued in next posting]
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #2 - on: 20.11.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Spica
 
And what do we find there? The strongest planet in his chart, to be sure - Mars of doubled dignity and on the cutting edge (being critical by degree exaggerating the function of the planet) as explained above. And it is conjunct Neptune which also carries some dignity when in Sagittarius as well as occupying its own house.  
So given such large feet, who else could hope to fill these shoes?  
3) What would we suppose about the Yod in his chart?  
Well, a Yod gives us a mission in life for does not the Finger of God always point out the only Way prepared for us? And does it not lie along a narrow path that only the righteous can safely tread for if they were to stray too far either side they may make a meal for Scylla or be sucked down by Charybdis? A Yod says we are chosen to fulfill a special purpose in life if we are prepared to follow the straight and narrow, remaining true to our higher nature and resisting the temptation to give into our more human weaknesses and take the apparently easier ways out. And when Neptune of utopian ideals and Pluto of superhuman effort weight the other end of this configuration, we know the native will try to emulate the superhuman in some way.  
For this Yod does not involve Chiron to Saturn but rather Chiron casting its aspect to Neptune and Pluto alone. You see, in this chart Saturn is a personal significator as well as being faster than Chiron so Saturn direct makes the inconjunct to Chiron retrograde first (not Chiron to Saturn) and only then does Chiron face a Yod. Small point, some might say, but it makes all the difference in interpretation.  
With Saturn applying to the inconjunct of a retrograde planet, it shows that he is committed to his faith in his innate potential and so to his sporting quest. Chiron shows one in pursuit of his natural birthright which is always, in the mind of the native at least, a great task or accomplishment that even the Gods would admire and when it is retrograde he is even prepared to suffer in his heroic quest. The house where you find Chiron indicates the activities in which he would excel and enjoy the laurels of his master Jupiter, father of the Gods and mortals. So Chiron shows he would become a great sportsman and in Taurus he must explore his limits of stamina and endurance and sheer physical strength if he is to reach that goal.  
But the temptations he must be willing to sacrifice is the easy popularity of the masses for Pluto rules the social 11th and mundane romantic daydreams for Neptune rules the 3rd house of everyday living. Both can only offer him false ideals and great distractions while he aspires to become a super-athlete. The Yod demands a one-pointed focus if he is to maintain a superior athletic performance but Chiron retrograde in the 5th says this will probably be at the expense of pursuing as full a love life as he might prefer.  
One solution to this is shown by the dispositor of the apex of the Yod - in other words, Venus in Libra will demand for his peace of mind and balance in life that he finds a loving partner who he can rely on and understands that when he is in training his athletic performance must come first until the event is won. And Chiron retrograde conjunct Algol warns him not to leap to conclusions in matters of romance or assume that a lover would understand his mission in life. Indeed, all the indications show that only a sportswoman who shares similar stresses of her sporting life is likely to make him a suitable permanent match. The Yod says until he finds such a match he must forego getting too emotionally involved in love affairs and not be overwhelmed by the demands and needs of romantic partners. Indeed he may find that until his athletic career is over, he may have little or no time to waste on the pursuit of romantic happiness.  
Quite a sacrifice for a young healthy Libran.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #3 - on: 23.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Pankaj
 
Only one planet in watery sign of this swimmer!!! Where does he swim? Saturn in the 10th caused doping allegations and controversies. This is really a case of developing the role Least aspected planet...? Jupiter ruler of Pisces in Watery Scorpio. see: members.tripod.com/astro_couteau/astro02.htm  
or, he is just an ambitious man destined to be successful, who has chosen swimming to move on to other more lucrative profession.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #4 - on: 20.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sam
 
Except for that Chiron, all Ian's planets are above the horizon and on the same side of the Nodal axis. The planets being "on top", especially with so many of them conjunct the MC is likely to make him more prominent in the outer world. The one-sided nodal planets brings a strong concentration in some areas and a completely lack of interest or even awareness of others. As for Chiron Taurus, that may be a part of his life which he hasn't fully dealt with yet - he is only 17 and hasn't even had his Nodal return.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #5 - on: 20.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Neena Kochhar
 
These comments on Ian Thorpe's horoscope are based on Hindu Vedic Astrology tenets. According to Hindu Vedic Astrology and Raman Ayanamsa, the fiery sign Sagittarius rises as the ascendant.  
Following are some of the points that make this an exceptional horoscope: The 7th lord is exalted in the 10th house, the house of achievements.  
ii. The 10th lord in its own exalted position is associated with the 9th house lord. 9th is considered the house of fortune and divine blessings. An association of the 7th, 10th and 9th lords goes by the name 'SRINATH YOGA'. This yoga is said to produce a person equal to 'INDRA' the lord of gods. In other words, an exceptional human being, an outstanding person in his field of endeavour.  
iii. The 10th house also hosts VENUS, the lord of 11th house ,the house of gains. For Venus Virgo is a place of debilitation. This debilitation is cancelled because of its association with Mercury and gives rise to a strong Neechbhanga Rajyoga. So VENUS gains strength too.  
iv. Association of the 9th, 10th and 11th lords in the strong kendra position as the 10th house, brings good fortune, honours and gains to the native.  
v. SATURN is exalted in the 11th house, the best possible position for a malefic to attain. Not only is SATURN exalted in the natal chart, it has also attained exalted navansa in the navamsa chart, thereby gaining vargottama position also. Can you imagine what SATURN is capable of bestowing on the native from such a strong position?  
vi. SATURN is aspecting the ascendant. A strong aspect of SATURN on the ascendant has given him his personality and physical features: his height and more than normal sized feet.  
vii. Mars is strong and situated in a watery sign Scorpio along with a watery planet Neptune. Mars is a fiery planet strongly associated with a strong Neptune makes him a very exceptional swimmer.  
viii. The ascendant is a fiery sign Sagittarius. Its lord is in the 11th house of gains. The ascendant also occupies the Vargottama navamsa rendering the nativity very strong. A vargotttama ascendant everybody does not have.  
ix. In navamsa chart Jupiter lord of ascendant aspects the navamsa ascendant fortifying it further. So you can see how every possible way the ascendant is being made strong by well placed and strong planets.  
x. All good yogas are of no avail if the relevant dasas do not transpire at the right time during our lives. In the case of Ian, he is presently running the major dasa of VENUS and the subperiod of SATURN. Both planets are giving their results in abundance. These planets will continue to give him good results in the years to come.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #6 - on: 19.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Ian Thorpe's angular IC ruler Mars, sextiled by tenth-house Venus/Sun and conjunct Neptune in Sagittarius (the sign of athletes) does in fact explain his swimming success. Ian's well-aspected Jupiter occupies the midpoint between Venus and Mars, and forms semi-sextiles with both. Although semi-sextiles (and quincunxes) rapidly lose force outside a 2-3* orb, they are powerful and important within, and should not be dismissed as minor aspects. Semi-sextiles operate like miniature conjunctions, and their 30* Taurus-nature has a practical effect on events. Ian's (Jupiter-) "filled sextile" is therefore similar to a Venus-Jupiter-Mars conjunction, and makes things happen for this lucky athlete.  
Neptune rules feet, and Saturn regulates physical growth, so Ian's "monster feet" relate to the close Neptune-Saturn sextile. Saturn produces both giants and dwarfs, and distinguishing between the two is not always easy in a blind astrological reading. For Ian, ruler Saturn conjunct fixed star Arcturus has brought early recognition and honor. Ian's progressed MC coincides with natal Saturn in 2000, and Sun-Mercury-Mars transits on Sept. 17th produced the historic (Saturn) Australian team (Libra) victory in the 400 meter men's medley, ending decades of US hegemony.  
The Chiron (apex)-Saturn-Neptune yod includes Pluto, which forms a tighter quincunx with Chiron than Saturn. These are difficult aspects, and their 150*Virgo-210*Scorpio nature requires much service (e.g., tedious training) and adjustment throughout the course of life. Ian has suffered from migraines (health), given up school (ninth), and had problems abroad (ninth). His reticence for romance (Virgo-like behavior in fifth) has been a necessary trade-off for his disciplined swimming ambitions. This yod supports the increasingly accepted view that Chiron (rather than Mercury) rules Virgo.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #7 - on: 18.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Linda L
 
Usually superperformances are the indication of one or more of these aspects: Mars-Saturn, Mars-Uranus, Mars-Neptune, Mars-Pluto.  
The subject here have Mars o/ Neptune. Saturn o/ Sun-Pluto do a sextile to this o/ Mars-Neptune. Nice aspects to be competitive and be a winner!  
Mars/Neptune is also a sign of genius in bad or good.  
He is a believer, interest in spirituality too.  
The Sun is at the MC: celebrity.  
Air sign are predominant in the chart and cardinal sign: rapidity and voluntary. He is better in short effort, fast sport (1 planet in fixed sign).  
In medical astrology the foot are represents by the planet Neptune. Neptune here is in Sagittarius sign (which one represent enormous, big things, too much) in the XII house - hse of Pisces originally.  
Jupiter second ruler of Pisces is in Scorpio sextile to his asc.: scorpio represent heredity, so the heredity is a factor in his foot 17.  
Anyway he have everything to be a winner, even his feet!
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #8 - on: 18.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anthony Louis
 
First, an editorial comment. I agree with Don Borkowski that Noel Tyl has done a disservice to astrology by erroneously using the term "peregrine" to refer to unaspected planets. For two thousand years astrologers have used "peregrine" to describe planets that are without essential dignity. To redefine the term and ignore two thousand years of history makes astrologers look rather unsophisticated to educated outsiders. We should at least know our own history and use astrological terminology appropriately.  
Regarding Thorpe's chart, this young man has the ambitious and disciplined cardinal sign Capricorn rising, which indicates the persistence in pursuing grueling hours of training for his sport. In the tradition of Evangeline Adams and William Lilly, I like to use the Chaldean decans, and here the Ascendant falls in a Mars decan, which is common in charts of athletes. For example, Chuck Norris and Dennis Rodman also have this decan of Capricorn rising.  
The Ascendant traditionally describes physical appearance, so I would look here to indications of large feet. As mentioned, the Mars decan of Capricorn is rising. In William Lilly's system, the Ascendant also falls in the terms of Mars, so I would look to the placement of Mars for a physical description. Mars conjoins the Placidus and Regiomontanus 12th house cusp, and the 12th house is assigned to the feet. Mars applies to conjoin Neptune, the modern ruler of Pisces, which rules the feet. Jupiter, the traditional ruler of Pisces, applies to sextile the Ascendant, also tying feet to his physical appearance. The connections between Pisces rulers, Jupiter and Neptune, and the Ascendant decan ruler Mars also indicate an interest in water sports. This is reinforced by Ascendant ruler Saturn closely sextile Neptune. I don't bother with yods and don't know how to interpret them other than to say, "yod..a..yod..a..yod..a.."  
Mars is not in a Gauquelin plus zone, but as you point out the vast majority of champion athletes do not demonstrate this criterion. Mars is quite strong, however, being sextile the Sun and Venus (ruler of the MC), with both those planets prominent in the 10th of career and public standing. In addition, there is a great deal of fire in this chart with four planets in fire signs and the sun elevated in the chart. Champion athletes commonly have a strong sun and a predominance of fire in their charts.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #9 - on: 18.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Teresa Hamilton
 
Any athlete whose skill depends on physical strength, determination and will power must have a strong Mars. Astrologers know that there are many ways a planet can be strong in a birth chart. Ian Thorpe has a 12th house Mars. If we forget for the moment the textbook interpretations of the 12th, what we have is a planet just above the eastern horizon at birth. This Mars happens to be conjunct the water planet, Neptune, which also is above the eastern horizon. Next, the sidereal sign position of Mars is important. Mars is in its own sign of Scorpio (behaves like Tropical Sagittarius), and in the navamsa chart it's exalted in Capricorn.  
In the navamsa chart Scorpio is the ascendant. This places the natal Mars right on the navamsa ascendant (2 degree orb). Navamsa Mars is in the 3rd house (use of the arms, much used in swimming), and Mars is in a powerful t-square to exalted Saturn in Libra and Jupiter in Aries. Taking all these factors together, Ian has one powerful Mars.  
Ian is a "star," and he has natal Sun in the 10th square the ascendant along with the Sun's dispositor (Mercury) in 10. In the navamsa chart the Sun is even stronger. It's in the 10th in its own sign of Leo, and receives the benefic trine of Jupiter in Aries. The Sun also is in a one degree square to exalted Moon in Taurus.  
Big feet? The 12th house is the feet. We won't see Ian's size 17 in the natal chart, but in the navamsa chart (which lasts for 14 minutes) Pluto and exalted Saturn are in the 12th opposed by Jupiter and Neptune. It may be the Pluto-Jupiter opposition that indicates Ian's feet. Jupiter always makes whatever it aspects bigger, and Pluto very often points to something about a person that's very unusual.  
Also from the natal chart Pluto and Jupiter fall in the 12th house in the navamsa. So we have two Jupiters influencing the 12th in that chart. I think in our eagerness to see psychology in the birth chart, we too often forget that each house represents a part of the body. By taking the natal and the navamsa chart together we should be able to see details that relate to a person's physique and personal appearance.  
A tremendous amount of will power is needed to be an Olympic gold medal winner. Along with the stubbornness and strength of Mars, this suggests fixed zodiac signs. I'll focus on the Moon here, which in India is the astrological symbol of the mind and emotions. Natal sidereal Moon is in fixed Leo in square aspect to Mars in fixed Scorpio. Add to that the 10th house Leo Sun in the navamsa chart, which conjoins the natal Moon. Also navamsa Moon is exalted in fixed Taurus in square to the 10th Leo Sun and the nodes in fixed signs. This is the confluence or agreement of many factors that makes a strong willed champion.  
...which makes me think of Tiger Woods. Tiger has a tremendous grouping of planets in fixed sidereal signs when the natal and navamsa charts are taken together.  
Neptune conjunct Mars suggests swimming, but I think the real answer to a specific skill has something to do with the actual stars and constellations, and which planets are conjunct which stars in the lunar mansions. Also the houses that represent the parts of the body used in a specific sport must be strong. This is why in India the 3rd is called the house of courage. The real meaning is that the hands and arms are used in most skilled sports.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #10 - on: 18.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sy * Scholfield, Rainbow Charts
 
Thanks for including a fellow Australian among your Newsmakers! What first struck me about Ian Thorpe's chart was the unaspected Jupiter in Scorpio in the Tenth House - the only planet in a water sign. From this arrangement it could be said that Ian was born to be a world famous swimmer. And he has handled that fame with considerable aplomb. He has maximised the potential of his unaspected sporty Jupiter (which also explains the sheer size of this big-hearted "man-boy") by over-compensating in that mostly solitary (Scorpionic) pursuit of power swimming.  
Expect a prominent mix of water Planets (Moon, Pluto, Neptune), water Signs (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces) and watery Houses (Fourth, Eighth, Twelfth) in the charts of famous swimming champions, along with outstanding fire Planets, Signs & Houses (for activity). Ian's chart is a good example. Moon in sporty Leo in watery Eighth T-squared by the Chron-Uranus opposition. Neptune in frisky Sagittarius in the watery Twelfth conjuncts Mars (with both disposited by unaspected Jupiter). In summary, there are two water planets (Moon, Neptune) in watery Houses (Eighth, Twelfth) in fire signs (Leo, Sag) and the other water planet (Pluto) is placed on the zenith conjunct the Ascendant ruler (Saturn). Fire signs cross the cusps of these houses and their ruling planets are all personalised (Mars sextile Sun, Sun on Midheaven and dispositing Moon, Jupiter unaspected and conjunct Sun/Mars midpoint).  
Legendary swim icon Dawn Fraser (4 Sept 1937 Sydney) has Sun conjunct Neptune -- with both disposited by disciplined Chiron in watery Cancer (which is disposited along with Pluto by Moon in sporty Leo? or Moon in Virgo in mutual reception?). Multiple world-record breaking 1500m freestyler Kieren "Superfish" Perkins (14 Aug 1973 Brisbane) also has no water planets except one, in his case, Saturn in Cancer (which is disposited by Moon opposite Leo Sun). Also expect the Pluto discovery degree (17 Cancer) to be prominent. Thorpe has it on his Descendant (ruled by Moon in Leo in Eighth), Fraser has her Jupiter in opposition at 17 Capricorn (disposited by Saturn in Aries), and Perkins has the 17 Cancer degree in aspect to both luminaries (the Moon which rules this degree is in Aquarius disposited and trined by Uranus at 19 Libra which in turn squares the 17 Cancer degree).  
Chiron features in Ian's chart as the pointer of a Yod from the Saturn/Pluto - Neptune sextile. Note that all the water planets (Moon, Neptune, Pluto) are in hard aspect to disciplinarian Chiron which is placed as a sort of Sling handle in the sporty, firey, active Fifth House of outdoor pursuits. With all these watery challenges, Ian had to take to the pool (to exercise his unaspected Jupiter in watery Scorpio) because he's not athletic and has absolutely no co-ordination for ball sports.  
Some other points. The black full-length seal-like bodysuit he wears is very sleekly Scorpionic. With Pluto high in the sky in dressy Libra dispositing his unaspected Jupiter in that sign, there's no surprise that controversies have stirred about possible advantages afforded by the buoyancy of his amphibious "frogsuit." Also, after being accused of drug-taking, Ian became paranoid about eating anything other than his mum's or his own cooking - fearing that someone might spike his food (domestic and culinary Moon T-squared by fussy Chiron opposite erratic Uranus). Those enormous flipper-feet come from his personalized Neptune (feet) in Sagittarius (gigantism) which aspects both his Moon (mum) and Sun (dad). Obviously those feet are a product of genes inherited from his parents. Angular Saturn and Pluto are conjunct and both in aspect to both luminaries (and Neptune too), and respectively rule his Ascendant (trademark physical characteristics) and disposit his unaspected Jupiter (gigantism). Get out your rulers, Ian's 195cm tall with a 190cm arm span, and he's still growing..  
You couldn't get a cuter combination than a Libra stellium including Venus (with three other planets all conjunct the Equal House Midheaven!!). It explains his sheer balance in the water, and also his well-balanced and charming personality. Libra is associated with Romance languages and with Mercury in that sign on his MC he has reportedly taught himself French. As such he represents a challenge to the stereotypical rough-and-ready (Aries) face of Australian masculinity. Sponsorships have probably made him a millionaire at seventeen (Capricorn Ascendant ruled by Saturn on Zenith conjunct big-money Pluto), particularly through his endorsement by a telecommunications company (Mercury in Libra on MC ruling sixth house of work-based income).
[continued in next posting]
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #11 - on: 18.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Sy * Scholfield, Rainbow Charts
 
Considering it's relatively small population (about that of New York or Los Angeles), Australia has consistently dominated swimming events in the Olympics. Maybe no surprise, then, that the chart for Australia (01 January 1901 13:36 AEST Sydney) contains no planets in water signs, and the water planets (Moon in Taurus, Neptune & Pluto in Gemini) are disposited by Venus and Mercury in sporty Sagittarius in the watery Eighth. The Moon is unaspected in the First House -- apart from a wide square from Mars that rules the Ascendant from the sporty Fifth. Australia is the driest continent with the very vast majority of its people however living within a few kilometres of the coastline where they enjoy swimming and other water sports.  
The cities which have produced the majority of these swimmers are firstly, Brisbane (01 October 1925 00:01 AEST) and secondly Sydney (20 July 1842 4?pm LMT). Both cities hug large bodies of water (Moreton Bay & Sydney Harbour) and both are split in two by water (Brisbane River & Sydney Harbour). The chart for Brisbane contains a Grand Water Trine (involving Moon and Pluto and three other planets that join with Jupiter to form a kite), and Neptune in firey Leo disposited by Sun in watery Fourth. Venus at 17 Scorpio trines Pluto on the 17 Cancer degree and disposits a watery Fourth house triple conjunction in Libra. Subtropical Brisbane is the only large Western city (with the possible exception of Miami?) which has outdoor swimming pools open all year round. Brisbane is a world centre for swimming and will host the Friendship Games in 2001. The chart for Sydney has Sun/Mars conjunct in Cancer disposited by Moon (in watery Twelfth?), and Pluto in firey Aries (on the nadir?) and Uranus in Pisces (on the IC?). Neptune in Aquarius and Uranus in Pisces are in mutual reception. Neptune quincunxes Mars in Cancer and semi-squares Moon. Jupiter is (rising?) at 16 Capricorn opposite (angular?) Mars at 19 Cancer. As a Sydney-sider, Thorpe seems to share the same angles (and fire signs on watery houses) with his city and thus serves as one of its swimming mascots.  
I don't know what a "Gauquelin Plus Zone" is, but Mars here in sporty Sagittarius rules the IC (and the watery Fourth House) - propelling Ian to live up to his nickname, the "Thorpedo." And of course, Mars is not only conjunct Neptune in its natural domain of the watery Twelfth, but is also disposited by the unaspected Jupiter. Ian has just won gold medals (Sun on Zenith) and broken world records at the Sydney Olympics, as transiting Pluto conjuncts his natal Mars in Sagittarius (which is disposited by that rare unaspected Jupiter in Pluto's own sign, Scorpio). At seventeen, he still has a long swimming career ahead of him - and with that unaspected-Jupiter-in-Scorpio I don't think he'll need much luck in the pool. As a regular lap-swimming masochist (who has spent most of his life in either Sydney or Brisbane) I'm continually inspired by my favourite Ian Thorpe quote: "pain at some point has to become enjoyable." Doesn't that sound like a quip from someone with unaspected-Jupiter-in-Scorpio ??!!
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #12 - on: 17.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Elva Howson
 
The Gauquelin sectors may have 'proved' certain areas and planetary placements as being significant to some careers and abilities but fail in the chart of Ian Thorpe. Could it be, in Ian's Placidean chart that his *unafflicted* Mars in a fire sign (Sag) sextile his Sun and Sun ruler Venus and par. decl. EP endows him with the muscular strength and energy to compete in world class sport? A pre-requisite for top athletes must surely be structured dedication, endurance and self discipline. Years of long training to attain success through personal effort. I believe Ian's Capricorn Asc so closely square the 10th house Sun Saturn conjunction is a strong contributor.  
Moon conj Regulus is a sure fire winner-maker when considered with the above. If anyone had doubted Ian would win Gold in the 2000 Olympics they have not looked at the secondary progressions where Prog Mars has been aspecting his Jupiter, Saturn, Pluto for several years in the lead up to the races, finally becoming partile trine his natal Moon on 16th Sept, the very date he won his first *two* Olympic Gold medals and just for good measure Sec. prog Moon trines natal Mars over the Olympic time frame with transit Mars conjunct natal Moon and Regulus at the very time of his wins.  
Possibly Natal Asc par dec natal Neptune (5mins arc) was a contributing factor in Ian's choice and skill in swimming. Also Neptune's Antiscia closely cojoins natal EP and squares natal MC.  
Ian's elongated feet surely must be more a genetic tendency rather than a planetary one.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #13 - on: 17.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
>>What makes him an Olympic champion?<<  
The chart is contained within a trine of Neptune/Mars and the Moon {excluding Chiron, something my simple mind encourages me to do}. The combination of two watery bodies in fire signs {with a Mars in Sag, to boot} would create the potential for someone to excel in a competitive water sport, but, it isn't enough to make one an Olympic champion. For that, I'd point to the Saturn/Pluto/Sun conjunction in the tenth house, combined with the Capricorn Ascendant. To "achieve" a place of significance, in the public eye, and receive recognition for something outstanding, is a deep need for this particular combination of emphasis. In other words, throw out the "Gauquelin" rule book, and any other rule book, for that matter, as rules are just meant as guidelines. BTW, without looking at the secondary progs, one can see the movement of the M towards this configuration, as mentioned above, to coincide at an early age.  
>>Every internet biography mentions his trademark size 17 feet. Can you find them in his chart?<<  
I'm not looking for size 17, when I look at a chart regularly, but, then again, unless I see some strong Uranus/Ascendant connection (possible with the Acendant a few degrees earlier at 17}, I still don't "see" it{something for me and Bata to learn more about}.  
>>What do you suppose the Yod to Chiron from a Neptune/Saturn sextile means? (The sextile is exact to 12'. Does this give him discipline for water sports?)<<  
As I've already commented on my ignore-stance of Chiron, I'd just like to add one comment to what I percieve as an important little distraction in the parenthesis. I consider the most exact aspect in a chart to be quite significant. Just how one incorporates this into the overall chart is not as simple to comment on, but, yes! discipline for water sports Sat/Nep/Sag, would be good cookbook verbage.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #14 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
his is all wrong. Vedic astrology explains all the questions above, however the chart above is completely wrong and distorted. You can not find any of those answers in that chart. You have to do the chart in vedic astrology than you'll the answers you are looking for..
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #15 - on: 16.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill William Autrey
 
Yods are powerful as I have one to the Moon which can turn my life up side down in transits. Any man with strong Sagittarian emphasis plus 9th house stuff all above the line is totally driven into collective activities and with Capricorn rising he is very serious. The Gauquelin stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt. They did not count the athletes who were great without Mars in the ninth.  
Jupiter in Scorpio is a story all by itself. Some people are born lucky. My Saturn in Sagittarius makes me a couch potato.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #16 - on: 15.09.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Lalia Wilson
 
My daughter, Arwen, is 12 days older with an ascendant just a couple of degrees different from this one. Arwen was born 1 Oct 1982, at 3:06 pm EDT in Manchester, CT. She is a A student, a ballet dancer, and a violinist, in her senior year of high school.. Other than the ballet, she has no interest in sports.  
With such similar charts I look at what is different. A different MC sign, the inner planets have moved some, and perhaps most importantly, the Moon is different. Ian's Moon in Leo is right on the fixed star Regulus, "King Maker." I think that's most of the difference right there!  
Here you can go to Noel Tyl's psychological need theory and attribute the differences to Ian's need to receive acclaim, to be a star.  
I'm sure that others will find a bunch of aspects, however I've lived with a chart very similar to this one for the last almost 18 years. Most of what sets Ian apart from the kids born a day or two before or after him are the angles and the Moon.  
Notice that we get that Leo flavor again from the Sun's close square to the Ascendant/Decendant. He was born to be a star.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #17 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Don Borkowski
 
The key to both his huge feet and his success in water sports is, believe it or not, his unaspected Jupiter. Unaspected planets, which Noel Tyl erroneously calls "peregrine", can function on an extreme level, as the other planets don't interfere with their function. Similarly, they can function almost continuously without the stimulation of transits, progressions, or directions. Ian's voracious reading is also tied to his Jupiter going "hog-wild". Over the years, many astrologers have tended to forget about Jupiter's historical rulership of Pisces. Keeping with the Jupiter theme, we therefore have the indicator of Ian's focus on swimming, although he could succeed at other Jupiterian endeavors, such as archery.  
As for the Saturn, Uranus, Chiron yod, I think it might be a contributing factor, but don't put too much stock in it. The late Al H. Morrison was obsessed with yods and Chiron. Now that Al's gone, let's just concentrate on the basics, and assign Chiron and yods their proper weight.
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re: Ian Thorpe
« Reply #18 - on: 08.09.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User william
 
what is thorpepedos weights
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