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Astro-Databank: John Forbes Kerry (Read 164 times)
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Astro-Databank: John Forbes Kerry
« on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
John Forbes Kerry, born 11 December 1943 at 08:03 AM in United States Army Fitzsimons General Hospital CO
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

We have a new birth time on the Democratic front runner, thanks to Robert Blaschke. Robert spoke with one of Kerry's former in-laws who knows astrology and got the birth time from Kerry himself.  
We have been waiting until we could confirm a more accurate birth time before making him a newsmaker. The previous 7:10 birth time was based on a report of "sunrise." We now have a whole new Midheaven to look at.
  • What type of leader would he be?
  • How does the Gemini stellium opposite his Sun manifest?
  • Early on in his campaign he was criticized for not being warm. That seems to have changed. Who is the real John Kerry?
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #1 - on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Beth Havens
 
You will note that Pluto will be in the first house conjunct natal sun on election day, strong urge to succeed which is helped along by Pluto if for the benefit of others, but detrimental if solely for personal gain.  
Stellium opposition - If Kerry had not learned to work with/ballance his solar chart he would not be the successful person he is today. an opposition can be negative or positive depending on how you use the energy. He obviously uses it well.  
Jupiter is approaching his MC and will be just past it at 7 degrees on election day. good auspices, and Venus will be conjunct his MC, which reinforces the polls which show that overwhelmingy women are voting for Kerry.  
the US IC, using the 4 july 1776 5:30 am chart, is 5 of Libra which would seemingly indicate that Kerry is successful at home in the US... Edwards has a very strong 4th house which sits on US fourth house so we may be seeing now the new President and VP, (though I'm rather fond of Clark as VP myself.)
Note John Kerry Uranus conjunct US birth Uranus, using the 4 july chart. perhaps noting the jeffersonian mandate for change and a strong desire to be free of puritanical mandates.  
Also John Kerry natal NN 7 leo conjunct US natal NN at 6 leo... there is a basic outline here of a person who is in sync with the consciousness of the country... I believe.  
Putting such information together I see the chart of a person who is in tune with the country. Having major T squares in my own chart I can see that you either learn to work with them or sink, and he has apparently learned to work with them or would not be in the position he is today.  
the Libra apex of his T squares shows that balance is a key factor to him. Fairness and standing up for himself and what he considers to be important, as evidenced in his initial counter atacks from the right on Patriotism.  
His Stellium in Gemini, shows him to be a thinker, a very heavy thinker. Such persons often appear to be cool, but his sun in Sag & Jupiter in Leo, both deny that facade. (though I must say that Venus in Scorpio looks interesting! hmmmmm. happy wife one may presume)  
I think Kerry's only real detriment in this chart is Neptune in Libra near his MC, which shows that his exalted idealism might occaisionally be a bit over the top. Though I've yet to see a truely successful politician who wasn't an idealist, look at Tallyrand or the members of the Continental Congress, Teddy Roosevelt... etc...
The real John Kerry? Well I suspect he's a man who sees the Shrub Wars being as potentially harmful as, if not more so, than the Vietnam war to the US. I do not think that he would have even considered the presidency at this time if Bush had not won the last election. And if the subsequent handling of the tragedy of 9/11/01 had been handled differently. (again I think this is related to the Libra passes and Kerry has Mars Trine Libra in Gemini... I dont think I'd really want to piss him off, mars gemini sounds sneaky to me) As to other issues, he's a line democrat and will probably act accordingly, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of surprises outside the war and Jobless arena's...  
Also note that Venus, Jupiter and Mars will all be in Libra on election Day, US Natal SAturn is 14 Libra and EVERY one of the democratic candidates and Shrub have a Strong Libra Conection. Most notably Edwards has Saturn Exalted in Libra at 20 Degrees... hello! again I say, whatever the outcome, he will be happy about it come election day. Shrub has natal moon conjunct US natal Saturn and will also be just past his SAturn return. not really the best situation for him I dont believe.  
okay I've yacked enough about my favorite candidate (I've been following him since his patriot counter attacks against the neanderthal MacCarthiest swine, I like this guy. A Jeffersonian in the rough) (gee not opinionated at all am I? well I try to be objective.)
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #2 - on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Melvyn T Phillips
 
Well, Trine-Kite AIR and Stellium in GEMINI...lots of Comms and Thoughts! I don't like the Double Sagi...Sun and Ascendant. Lots of EGO in this guy - Jupiter Leo - Sun in First House, although he does have some Saturn Structure about him. I see no EARTH or WATER(slight neptune)...does that mean he can't be relied upon and doesn't really care? I like to see some Water and Earth for reliability in a person. He truly believes in himself, but these guys on the political stage do - it doesn't make them right or suitable. When I first looked at this man's face, my INTUTION said..."He'll never make President". Now my Intuition is always correct. But who will prove me wrong I wonder? He's got the FORCE to get things done, but he doesn't have the CARE or Sensitivity that a person needs to fEEL for others. He boasts of this Military Career, but people aren't the military - it simply shows he has COURAGE and you need more than just that for people today.
Melvyn.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #3 - on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
What would you call this chart shape? It's bounded by 1st house Mercury in Capricorn inconjunct Uranus in 6th house in Gemini. Awkward, maybe odd, maybe brilliant ideas? There's a conflict between conservative thinking and needing to serve in a different, rebellious kind of way. His platform will be strongly formed to beat Bush. Hope that works for him. Also, there's an interesting geometric pattern playing off this quincunx with sextiles from Venus in Scorpio (political, plays well with others) and Pluto/North Node in 8th house in Leo (strong vitality). Venus & Pluto square each other along with Scorpio emphasis show his staying power.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #4 - on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stephanie W.
 
1. I would hesitate to say what kind of leader he would be for sure - Sag rising usually indicates a search for meaning and understanding - And Sun in the first house indicates a need to be seen as a leader. The South node in Aquarius in the 2nd house indicates someone who is a pragmatist, who is progressive and tolerant and socially conscious. Chiron in the 9th indicates a wounding around his philosophy of life, truth and beliefs. As we all know, once the wound is healed he can become a great healer and inspiration for others. Is he at this stage of evolution now? Can he lead us to look at the truth, to examine our beliefs and find what is true for ourselves?  
2. Gemini is about information & communication. Sag. is about beliefs. An opposition indicates an imbalance between the 2 - indecision around what he believes and what he says. The Moon opposite the Sun also indicates an imbalance between the ego and emotions, the masculine and the feminine, thoughts and feelings. This can lead to indecision, but once he resolves this conflict it can lead to someone with great drive.
3. Who is the real John Kerry? I believe that the success has bolstered his confidence. Saturn conjunct his Moon indicates a shyness to express his emotions and who he really is. As he has had more and more success, his confidence has increased and I believe that we are seeing more of the "true" John Kerry.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #5 - on: 18.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
1. Leader...Jupiter is said to be strong in the charts of great political leaders, but Jupiter is also notorious for big talk and promising more than one can realistically deliver. We certainly see a strong Jupiter here, with the Sagittarius Sun rising. Jupiter is in the 9th House, and though it is not shown on the chart, Jupiter is widely sextile Saturn and the Moon. I have not read the bio, but he is probably also a strong educator, and he would probably try to do a lot for education, to make it better organized and more enthusiastic. His powerful 7th House cusp shows that he's open to cooperation and compromise, but the rising Sun means that when he is boss, he never forgets that. Pluto is widely trine the Sun, but also in the Sun's sign Leo, so he is very focussed, and into things til the end. I can see that he might have difficulty with sexual relationships to an extent, but I think this is a matter of neglect, where they tend to deteriorate while he puts his time into his work. 2. Gemini stellium...I would say that it manifests in a strong detached(yet heartfelt) interest in others, what they are doing, what their goals are, etc. You need this to be where Kerry is. A strong desire to listen to others, and talk with them, share facts and common interests. He is very highly intelligent and can probably talk to anyone about anything, feel like 'one of the guys'. His Mercury, ruler of this sign, is in his first house, in Capricorn, and Mars and Saturn form part of the stellium, so no doubt it helps him in his career. 3. Not being warm? Never heard that one. But the fire is indeed strong here, he is a strong pursuer of goals, and the strong Air shows he helps others pursue theirs. That could give a somewhat 'dry' appearance, but I think that the Moon in the 7th House keeps him from being 'unemotional'--he can relate to others on the feeling level. The conjunction with Saturn shows he can be acutely aware of other's feelings and hardships. He can be dedicated to others---so much of his life and experience is tied in with his connection with them.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #6 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Thor Thorgeirsson
 
John Kerry´s chart was initially cast based on the 7:10AM time circulating on the net. At that time, a paradox was noted that the 12 Scorpio rising (sidereal) did not explain his tall height. However, a yoga for political power was evident.
The chart was recently rectified using the Systems Approach to Vedic Astrology (SA) on the yahoo discussion group SAMVA, as propounded by Professor Choudhry of Guargon, India.
The time identified as explaining John Kerry´s tall size was 8:02 AM, moving the Sun within the most effective point (MEP) of the ascending degree of 23 Scorpio. I enclose the discussion in case it is of interest to other astrologers.
The salient facts of the discussion on SAMVA are:
1. Reading of 12 Scorpio rising chart based on time of 7:10 AM chart circulated on internet by Thor. Paradox of height noted for Scorpio rising (Jan 16, 2004 8:24 pm)
2. Sun´s influence in Ascendant suggested by David Hawthorne as explanation for tall height (Msg. 5782, Feb 4, 2004 8:36 pm)
3. Sun´s placement in MEP of ascendant suggested and 8:02 AM time suggested by Thor Thorgeirsson as explanation for his height (Msg. 5783, Feb 4, 2004 10:50 pm)
4. Professor Choudhry presents the Rule for Tallness (Msg. 5784, Feb 4, 2004 11:06 pm)
I could also note that the prediction made on 18 January (Msg. 5669) that John Kerry would beat the other Democratic candidates was based on the 10L Sun in 1H in mutual aspect to the exalted 9L Moon in 7H aspect -- the royal planets ruling powerful houses in prominent placements -- in the 12 Scorpio rising chart, and taking into consideration the strength (weaknesses) of the other candidates charts. Kerry´s chart was considered strongest. The prediction he would win the Presidency was made in Msg 5777 on 4 February at 7:21 am was based on this chart as well and the chart of George Bush. That prediction was confirmed based on the rectified chart for John Kerry, as the chart only became stronger with the later degree.
For further information: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAMVA/
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #7 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User wayne penner
 
I do not see this as a presidential chart.
The important Opposition Sun to Moon/Saturn will undoubtedly dispose Mr. Kerry to harp on about his experience, but by November he may look just like an old geezer looking for a job.
His health and especially his stamina will come into question because the Mutables dispel conflict at the cost of energy and endurance. This is a man who needs a lot of rest, and he obviously will not be getting it in the months to come. Watch for a health concern in the summer.
I think the Mercury Neptune Square takes on much greater import than usual - there are four bodies in Gemini - and Kerry will be increasing be labelled as someone who is inconsistent and uncertain of his policies. He may actually have some problems with telling the truth. In any case, with so many bodies in Mutables this is a chameleon, a man who can be whatever you want him to be, and an hour later, something else. Also, whispers and rumors will continue dog his campaign. Revelations will be forthcoming.
I could be wrong - I like the benefics in this chart - plenty of charm and diplomacy, and this is a guy who can soothe his enemies into complacency, for a while. The Sun/Moon/Saturn affliction denotes considerable political ability and controversy, and note that G W Bush, Clinton, George Bush and Reagan, among recent presidents, all have strong Sun/Moon aspects, mostly inharmonious.
If I were betting, and I'm not, I would say this will be another squeaker finish, with Bush going into a second term.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #8 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User C. A Keenan
 
This is not a stable person. Full moon charts are not people who are rock steady at the best of times and Gemini/Sagitarrius is definately one of the most antsy. This person is so highly competitive that I can't imagine him as an effective person who would listen to good advice. And that opposistion square to Chieron just makes it all that more unstable. If this was the mystery chart I would have guessed that it was a serial killer. I'm glad he's not a Republican, that would truly be scary.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #9 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User DG
 
Another aspect of having a lot of mutable signs is other people project all sorts of things on the person. There was a comment earlier about having him president would be frightening and he would give all authority to the UN. That to me is pretty typical of someone with a lot of mutable signs becoming the receiver of other peoples fears and projections.  
While he has the mutable sings he does have Saturn in the middle of it all and even though it is in Gemini it is still Saturn. I think his chart shows a leader that would be engaged in issues (Gemini Moon)for what he feels is the higher good (Sag Sun and Ascendant)and with the staying power to see things through ( Saturn Conj. Moon, Opp. Sun/Asc.)
He is not warm like a person with a lot of Cancer could be warm. I think the polarity of Gemini and Sag captures his apparent personality. He seems detached and intellectual (Gemini Moon conj. Saturn) but became full of fire and a noble cause ( fire sign Sag for Sun/ASC.) That is the Kerry polarity. And the real John Kerry is both of those characteristics. Some people may see that as "phony" or "flip flopping" but I think it is more that he has two distict sides to his personality.
America often elects someone very different from the preceeding president see Eisenhower/Kennedy, Carter/Reagan, Bush/Clinton, Clinton/Bush all very different. In Kerry we have the intellectual flexibility denoted in the mutable signs coming against the fixed quality of George Bush. These guys are very very different people. But everybody sees it there own way so the conspiracy theorists like to recount that Kerry too was a member of Skull&Bones at Yale. I think Kerry will be President as Saturn heads down to the lower portion of G Bush's chart.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #10 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User DG
 
A comment about that Chiron. It is on the mid-heaven and it sqaures his Sun/Asc. opp Moon/Sat polarity in Sag and Gem. I think this captures his role visa vis the Viet Nam war. Sag equals foreign, Gemini equals intellect-debate and Virgo equals healing. In his chart and life the Viet Nam war was played out in action/Sag as a warrior, in debate/Gemini as a young man in the anti-war movement and later in politics, and finally in healing/virgo as he brings Viet Nam vets farther back into America's embrace and may become the first Viet Nam vet to be President. And if he becomes that will probably be the only one who ever will be president.
It is also ironic that his visage is a lot like Lincoln's. Tall, gaunt, intellectual very Saturnian and he too would take over a country divided. Not shooting each other but at war on many other levels. You could say that the war of the 1860s was an UN-Civil War. And since the election of 2000 we have been in a "Civil" War.
A lot needs to be healed both internally in the US and externally with other countries. This is of course beyond the means of any one person to do. But John Kerry's chart shows a person that will probably work himself to exhaustion to try to achive that end. He is indeed a very wounded healer!
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #11 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Muriel Lindsay
 
I very much resonate with these observations. Somehow, that chiron on the midheaven caught my attention as being very significant and having everything to do with why this man might very well end up as the Commander in Chief. Chiron and MC being apex of a powerful T-Sq. including a stellium . . . hard to ignore. I also like the regeneration focus of NN and pluto in 8th. Where pluto is denotes a place where the individual whose chart it is can assist the evolution of the whole while moving beyond their own ego (8th house definitely an ego death placement) . . . a journey into the greater good. The more I look at this chart, the better I like it for the next man up to bat.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #12 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Furheen
 
At last a long awaited chart! First of all I would shed light on the orientation of the chart which is foretelling all by itself about the motivations of the individual.Most planets above the horizon encompasing both eastern/left hemisphere and the western/right hemisphere Universal and social houses Denotes the person is concerned with broader cultural collective global issues with interpersonal relationships. Here we find a more graceful diplomat not a dictator. I would advise everyone to use this time of 8am but Placidius as it truely puts the planets in the right places making the MC very aptly Libra. There is one very logical reason for me to exercise this as in 1982 Jupiter was in Libra when he won his elections. I hope you get my point. I wish Mr Kerry good luck & please americans we do need a peace maker!
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #13 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User estebon duarte CMA
 
The Sun rising in Sagitarius promises a motivation of action toward power and authority, through philosophical matters and those related to law and other Sag. manifestations. He is ambitious in these matters (Jupiter) and this is supported by Jupiter's placement in the 9th house/Leo backing his endeavors with the proud idealism that seek out more power and authority than just a fire Asc. alone. The efforts affecting this (or propelling it) are the confusion of planets in Gemini/7th house through their opposition to the Sun/Asc. As the placement of their dispositor (Mercury) is in the first. So the contention that inevitably arises from the 7th (and affects the Sun/Asc.) is due to the goal-oriented, materially based drive of Mercury in Capricorn. Apart from that interesting is the fact that Venus rules both houses of work (I am using Alcabitius division and Ancient rulership) and is in the detriment of Scorpio, indicating that the motivation of his works is lust, and that lust is directed toward control. This is tied to his friendships which are independent from the rest of his chart through the fact that Venus is in the 11th and rules it as well, but these friends seem to have the same intention of willful control (due to the quality of Venus). "Skull&Bones", come on, I guess if we judged our citizenry on the level of our "representitives" we all are millionaires and went to Yale. "long live the King", whoever he is.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #14 - on: 19.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Kris
 
I was up late last night and now have eyestrain after comparing Kerry, Edwards and Bush to the United States chart July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, PA 2:12am S.T. with 7 degress 35 min. Gemini rising. It was really wierd the way these three people tie in to the U.S. chart. What started me off at first was the Gemini stellium both Kerry and Edwards have. The election will be very close. It's as if these three men were meant to be here at his point in our history.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #15 - on: 20.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
Ruler of the 2nd house in the 7th, financal assests linked to partners.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #16 - on: 20.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Suzanne Levinson
 
Sagittarians have a difficult time being elected to any political office these days, especially for the Presidency, but with the stellium in Gemini conjunct the ascendant on the US's true natal chart, Kerry may have a chance. Also, his Moon, Saturn, and Sun are featured strongly, which seems to be a prerequisite for US Presidents.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #17 - on: 21.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User John W. Hines
 
I would not like to see John Kerry become president. He has only one planet in earth (common sense) and only one in water (emotional understanding). Perhaps Mercury square Neptune will go against his campaign. Or Venus square pluto will get him in some way.
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #18 - on: 21.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bettina Woolard
 
One comment to Wayne: In Vedic astr. Sun/Moon oppositions are considered to be about as good as it gets. I'm not sure why, perhaps the person is supposed to be more objective than most. Also, in the sidereal system, JK's Moon is in it's exaltation sign of Taurus.  
As someone already mentioned, the Sun is a major benefic for a Scorpio asc. As ruler of the 10th in the 1st, it indicates a strong orientation toward professionalism. Being fully aspected by the exalted Moon which rules the 9th, making it also a benefic, this opposition is aces.  
Whether or not JK beats Bush likely has to do with which dasas both men are running, as well as solar returns and transits, than with natal horoscopes. Since JK's time seems a little iffy (though we can be pretty sure of the asc), it's hard to be precise in predictions.  
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re: John Forbes Kerry
« Reply #19 - on: 21.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jane Griscti
 
Comments based on Alchabitius House cusps.
1. What type of leader would he be?
Sun in the 1st could indicate he was born to lead. In Sag with Jupiter Asc ruler in the 9th he tries to do the right thing; ethics would be important to him. Venus ruling Asc is in Scorpio in the 11th won't act until he's researched things (Scorpio) and got to the root of them. He would also try to work with others (11th) even when they are fixed in their views however this is not likely to benefit him as Venus is in detriment.
2. How does the Gemini stellium opposite his Sun manifest?
The stellium competes with his Asc. His desire to do the right thing, to act on what he knows competes with the desire of others to jump around and focus on whatever catches their interest. There's a conflict between the desire to act and the desire to know more which is also shown by Libra MC, Venus in Scorpio.
As Moon is universal significator of the public there is a chance the public will become his enemy; push him to choose between what he believes is right and what they see as right. And this will cause problems for his career and reptuation (Moon disposited by Mercury in 1st square MC). His anti-war stance after returning from Vietnam is one way in which this manifested itself.
3. Early on in his campaign he was criticized for not being warm. That seems to have changed. Who is the real John Kerry?
Moon and Saturn in Gemini opp Asc strongly colors his fiery inclinations; makes him appear sober (Saturn) aloof and cool (Air). Possibly an 'ivory-tower' image.
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