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Astro-Databank: Catherine Zeta-Jones (Read 262 times)
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Astro-Databank: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« on: 04.02.2001 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Catherine Zeta-Jones, born 25 September 1969 at 2:40 PM in Swansea
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

  • This is a good chart to debate the merits of Equal house vs. Koch and Placidus house systems. In Equal house she has five planets in the 10th, in Koch six planets in the 9th and in Placidus five planets in the 9th. What chart works best for her?
  • Can you find a beautiful face and terrific bone structure in a chart?
  • Do you see signs of marrying an older man?
  • If you had given them a wedding electional for November 18, 2000 at 7:30 what would you be designing into their marriage?
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #1 - on: 06.05.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jackie
 
What I find most interesting is that in Hollywood, Catherine Zeta Jones is thought to have lied about her age by as much as five or ten years (apparently even dating back to her teenage acting). The rumors have become too pervasive to discount, and thus far her publicist has made only simple denials. That Catherine Zeta Jones herself in a letter provided the birth data listed here doesn't assuage my suspicions. Producing her actual birth certificate is the only way to guarantee the time and year of birth.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #2 - on: 03.05.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Susan
 
Mars in Capricorn, in the First (ruling appearance, Capricorn-exquisite bone structure, particularly face and head) Moon in Pisces gives a dreamy quality and let's not forget Venus in Virgo. Plus, with all that Libra charm (four planets) how pretty does she have to be!
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #3 - on: 08.02.2001 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Trish
 
Marrying an older man - Grand Trine: Venus - Mars (in Capricorn) - Saturn. Her beauty - Jupiter Ruler of the Ascendant is in Libra. I think the stellium in the 9th is correct - Her fame, work, etc. has occurred in a foreign country. Her husband is a foreigner (ruler of the 7th in the 9th). I'd be interested to see her relocation chart (either to Los Angeles or New York City).
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #4 - on: 30.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Kaz
 
Looking back to query re: Zeta-Jones' correct birth date... rumours abound in Hollywood/ film circles re: the true ages of actresses (Zeta-Jones, Madonna, just two examples.) If born in U.K. it's simple to check (for free) someone's birth date by looking up the name under assumed birth date in birth record volumes held at the Birth, Deaths Records Office in London (near Roseberry Ave, Clerkenwell) (Can also check marriage and death dates if in UK). This won't help with time, but will confirm whether date/year given is accurate.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #5 - on: 29.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Answering the questions in reverse order, two people born on the same day have basic affinity, and can find it easy to be friends and lovers. While this is a short-term bonanza, common defects also tend to be reinforced over time. Although two Libras are not prone to big fights, it is often difficult to sustain a long-term marriage in such cases. The marriage's IC exactly coincides with Catherine's third house (ninth of seventh) North Node in Pisces, showing a fated event involving the religious values (ninth) of her husband (seventh) (see #3 below). The pre-nuptial stipulation that Catherine will get more money the longer they stay together relates to fifth-house Scorpio Sun ruling the second (money) opposite Saturn in Taurus. This same opposition's T-square with ruling Moon, Libra Mars exactly semi-sextile the Koch fifth-house cusp, and fifth-house ruler Pluto quincunx the Ascendant all reflect son Dylan's having already been born (8<sup>th</sup> August 2000, 6PM PDT, L.A.).  
Mars in Capricorn trine Saturn shows Catherine's dark complexion, and the Grand Trine with Venus (fifth-house ruler and Saturn's dispositor) gives an attraction to older men.  
This same Grand Trine plus Venus semi-sextile Sun-Uranus give her a beautiful face and bone structure.  
We use Koch, and feel it is the one correct house system, since it is consistent with Kepler's Second Law (see our Robert Downey, Jr. comments). The current chart, however, may not be the best place to prove Koch's superiority to the older Placidus system (John Lennon's chart does, among others). We look forward to continuing this debate, and question the logic behind the Equal house system. Mundane houses should be calculated for the earth, and not for space like the equal-degree zodiacal signs. Since the Ascendant (starting point for houses) does not uniformly move 30º every two hours of the day, in our opinion Equal degree houses lack theoretical underpinning. They are merely a convenient simplification given the lack of consensus in this area. Zeta-Jones's chart also provides us with good practical reasons for preferring Koch:
  • Even after "Zorro" with Antonio Banderas, when she returned from Kuala Lumpur to continue filming "Entrapment" with Sean Connery, an English cabdriver thought she was washed up as an actress (T-square involving fourth ruler Capricorn Mars).
  • Catherine now lives abroad, and her husband Michael Douglas (25<sup>th</sup> September 1944, 10:30AM EWT, New Brunswick, N.J.) is a foreigner (Sun-Mercury in ninth-house stellium).
  • Douglas's Saturn at 10º Cancer rules his third (ninth of seventh) and he proposed at Aspen on New Year's Eve 2000 (31<sup>st</sup> December 1999) with the Sun at 10º Capricorn, squaring her seventh-house ruler Mercury at 10º Libra (= Israeli Ascendant) in her ninth of faith and values. The Daily Mail reported Catherine was fascinated with the Jewish faith and seriously considering converting. She agreed to her son being raised as a Jew, and Dylan's Moon exactly conjoins Israel's third-house cusp at 9º Sagittarius.
  • In the same event related in #3 (marriage proposal), Mars at 28º Aquarius was crossing Zeta-Jones's third Koch house cusp (ninth of seventh = spouses's values).
  • M. Douglas's seventh (marriage) house ruler Venus conjoins her MC. Her corrected birth time may be 14:38 MET, coinciding with 26º 44 Libra. This of course would mean that her marriage to Douglas is the high point of her career (status).
  • Brigitte Bardot has four planets in the ninth and two in the tenth, while Catherine Deneueve has three in the ninth and none in the tenth. This raises doubt that beautiful Libra actresses with expansive glamour need tenth-house stelliums to be successful.
  • Son Dylan was born under an exact Venus return. This makes more sense with the fifth house cusp in Taurus.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #6 - on: 29.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Eleanor A. Buckwalter
 
I will make an argument for the Koch chart. The ruler of her ASC, Jupiter, is in the 9<sup>th</sup> house (Placidus as well) of foreign countries. Moving to the US (foreign country) has allowed her unusual creativity and brilliance (Sun conjunct Uranus) to flourish. Her beauty (Venus) also is more fully appreciated away from home (Wales). The ruler of her 7<sup>th</sup> (Mercury) house of marriage is in the 9<sup>th</sup> in the Koch chart, indicating a foreign spouse (Mike Douglas, an American). Placidus puts Venus in the 8<sup>th</sup>, which implies intense but problematic relationships. Koch puts it in the 9<sup>th</sup> -- a foreign lover who is philosophically compatible.  
Zeta Jones's beauty and fine bone structure go along with the Venus ruled MC, and Venus in Virgo (refined) making a trine to her 1<sup>st</sup> house (face) Mars in Capricorn (perfection; skin and bones). Saturn (also skin and bones) in Venus ruled Taurus completes the grand trine in earth. Her Moon aspects the ASC and MC, something she shares with many other beauties. Moon is the archetype of the ideal femine.  
Zeta Jones has her 7<sup>th</sup> house ruler conjunct Uranus. That often implies a spouse of a different generation, a wide age gap. Since she is so young, that would, at this point in her life, indicate an older man. The Sun rules her 9<sup>th</sup>, a second marriage, and it also conjuncts Uranus. So, at some future time, she may choose a spouse much younger than herself.  
Given the marriage chart of 18<sup>th</sup> November 2000 at 7:30 PM in New York, it looks like the intention or intended purpose of this union is to establish a family and have many children (the marriage Moon conjuncts Zeta Jones's Venus). The Moon squares Jupiter and Saturn. There may be several children and one may be a burden. The rulers of the 4 angles, Moon vs. Saturn and Mercury vs. Neptune, square each other. The age difference may cause tension, especially vis-a-vis the children. Home vs. career may also be a source of tension. Being away from home (Jupiter, ruler of the 6<sup>th</sup>) is quincunx Venus in Capricorn in the 6<sup>th</sup> and Mercury in Scorpio on the cusp of the 5<sup>th</sup>, will require a lot of adjustments.  
The 5<sup>th</sup> house Sun and Pluto indicate and intensely romantic and passionate marriage, but with Saturn opposing the Sun from a late degree of Taurus (between Algol and the Pleiades), there may be tears and tragedy in the marriage. When Pluto transits over Zeta Jones's ASC and squares her natal Moon/Pluto opposition during 2005 to 2007 professional jealousy or jealousy related to the jobs may precipitate problems.  
With her Neptune on the marriage chart Sun, Zeat Jones is very romantic and has high expectations of her marriage.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #7 - on: 28.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza Ideagirl
 
Has anyone else noticed that Equal House charts tend to work really well for Europeans? Maybe for everyone born in "the old world," I don't know.  
On the other hand, as career-oriented as Zeta-Jones is, she's also a Welsh girl living in a foreign country, married to a successful, wealthy foreigner. The ninth-house stuff is certainly valid.  
As for beauty... Venus trine Mars trine Saturn helps a lot. Mars rising in Capricorn can give either wonderful skin and bone structure or terrible both... but she's got Sagittarius rising, I've never known a physically blemished or unappealing Sag rising, unless they "blemished" themselves in a sports accident!! So the more fortunate side of Mars in Capricorn rising is likely.  
Also, look at all that Libra up at the MC!! Chart ruler, sun, etc. Another dose of prettiness.  
The most noticeable thing to me about her husband, as seen in her chart, is not his age but the fact that he's foreign (7<sup>th</sup> ruler conjunct Jupiter) and successful (in the 10<sup>th</sup>). And intelligent (Mercury, air sign, conjunction to Uranus). The Uranus conjunction does suggest something sudden and surprising about her marriage. His age is hinted at by Mars in Capricorn, 7<sup>th</sup> ruler in the 10<sup>th</sup>, and the Venus/Mars trine to Saturn--all of that suggests that age is a possibility, that it wouldn't be a reason for her not to marry someone; as long as he fit the major requirements (foreign, intelligent, successful), age would certainly not be an impediment.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #8 - on: 28.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User David Wakinya-Ska Bratcher
 
Zeta Jones and I have Mars connections ( hers on my sun and mine on her ascendant as well as her Saturn on my Moon) and I have watched her chart for some time now. I use the Koch chart because the events coincide with the transits and progressions a little better. Also, I can better reconcile an acting career with the Venus ruled Libra Midheaven. The equal house chart makes no sense at all when you take into account her philosophy and spiritual direction. What we will see from Mrs. Zeta Jones Douglas we have yet to SEE. The grand earth trine in fire houses is perfectly expressed in her ability to project on screen/stage but the stressors ( full moon square the mars in the first) keep her on her toes and it looks like the sloth that is usual with a grand trine in earth does not occur. She is highly aware and that T-square/Grand trine complex accounts for her ability to engineer a powerful NEW direction for herself in show biz.  
The retrograde Saturn in Taurus in the fifth is the clue to her marriage to Michael Douglas and time will tell if she is evolved enough to avoid the complications of the Gemini/Mercury influenced seventh house. Being a Humanistic Astrologer I am betting on her; one never trys to out guess a client without an interview. I don't believe that the lifestyle she has engineered for herself has that many flaws. Venus in Virgo in the ninth is formidable and trine the Mars/Saturn is a great indicator of her self control and poise. The interception, which involves the lower end of the T-square is another interesting clue to her soul's manifestation in this form and when you couple that with a retrograde Saturn one can see an amazing presence; a high "spiritual" presence which reminds me of Grace Kelly, in a way. Time will tell if her "beauty" moves the public as Kelly's did. Of course there's more here than meets the eye, there always is but enough is enough. I will continue to study this chart closely.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #9 - on: 28.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Abbie
 
Oh my. With all those planets in the tenth, she Had to become famous! With most of those planets in Libra, she could've become a diplomat. Sun exactly square Mars in the first: I doubt there's anyone more determined than her.
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #10 - on: 28.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
  • <b>House System</b>...for me, one and only one system works...because it 'feels' right to me...I see it confirmed time and again...this is the Equal House System, based on the ascendant, which is calculated the same in every system...you just calculate the ascendant as you normally would, then all the other houses fall in the same degree in each sign...I sometimes I call each cusp a 'pinnacle', especially the 10<sup>th</sup> House...I notice this system is used in all the charts on the AstroDatabank list(with the addition of the MC which is calculated differently)...I just have to see things for myself before I use them and the House system used here has worked for me every time...In the case of Ms Zeta-Jones, she has Pluto close to the 10<sup>th</sup> pinnacle, with the other planets in Libra climbing up the 11<sup>th</sup>...as the 10<sup>th</sup> and Pluto are close to the Libra point, the public life is definitely for her and she can basically have any kind of relationship she wants...Sun shows that another bright star in basically the same field of expertise would be attracted to her...Pluto was known for sweeping maidens away so she was basically taken up by Mr Douglas not long after her career really got off the ground...their relationship is probably one of the major driving forces in her career...and no doubt she has lots of acquaintances and a wild social life to drive anyone insane...
  • <b>Beauty and structure</b>...can't help but notice that 1<sup>st</sup> House Mars is in Capricorn, and in a grand trine with Venus and Saturn...rugged beauty and strength, good physical stamina...Venus is the sexual beauty...Mars gives more sexuality, this is in terms of physical energy and stamina, especially as he is in Capricorn here...Saturn gives only more structure and strength, also because he is in Taurus...these last two planets are what in my opinion give her 'mannish' appearance, especially since Mars is rising...it is good in any chart to have Mars and Venus in good relation to each other, this is the case here...but Mars is challenged...being at the focus of a T-square with Pluto and Sun near Libra, and Moon and Chiron in Aries...here I issue a warning...she can get angry...frustrated...too much social highs can confuse and throw her off balance...make her forget discipline and structure, break her own rules...she may be an athlete and fitness fan, but if she gives in too much to what others want for or from her she may lose her health....depression...possibly a physical handicap or even an accident...broken bones...the squares to Libra can indicate legal troubles, including divorce...with problems of who gets what...
  • <b>Older man</b>....well, that same grand trine can indicate this...Mars is her man...being in Capricorn, she would want a mature man of position, often this entails a man in his 40's or even 50's, for a woman of her age...also Pluto up above...in Greek myth he married the lady he kidnapped, who was of course very young(he was of course ageless)...and Venus is in trine to both Mars and Saturn, Saturn being the 'old man' of the planets...
  • <b>Wedding electional</b>...I assume you mean at 7:30PM, on Manhattan...hmmm...this is a Cancer-rising chart, with Mars in Libra...in square to Venus in Capricorn, but in trine to Jupiter in Gemini, and in trine to Neptune in Aquarius...and Moon is in Virgo and square Sun near Sagittarius...I am sorry but I don't see her being too happy here...the Moon here is very unhappy...she wants a stable, warm and secure relationship and this ain't it...this chart is the formula for infidelity and she will be tired of endless compromising with a man who cannot be loyal or respect her...she needs to set her limits and stick to them...or she will be urged to find her security and happiness elsewhere...either in secret, or after a separation...  
 
Thanks again Smiley
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re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
« Reply #11 - on: 31.07.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Mihaela Dicu
 
I'll try to judge this chart using Placidus and a bit of ancient astrology.
  • For me, the MC (not so far from Spica!) governed by Venus and well aspected is ok. If we consider that the almuten of 10<sup>th</sup> is the ambitious and tenacious Saturn, placed in Venus domicile, triplicity, term and face (Ptolemy) and in trine with his dispositor, that could speak enough about a strong artistic career. Catherine's worldwide success obtained after the accomplishment of the first Saturnian cycle is a confirming factor, I think.  
  • Her beautiful face and the harmonious constitution could be due to:  <ol type="a">
  • Sun's dispositor, Venus, placed in the human sign of beauty, Virgo;  
  • As ruler, Jupiter, in Venusian sign;  
  • Moon in Pisces in Venus exaltation and triplicity;  
  • Mars in 1<sup>st</sup>, in his exaltation, but in Venus triplicity and term.
  • Marring an older man?  Maybe the retrograde Mercury, as 7<sup>th</sup> house governor, placed in the exaltation, triplicity and face of Saturn...On the other hand, the 7<sup>th</sup> house has two almutens: Mercury and Saturn. A Venusian partner? That is Mercury in Venusian sign and in mutual reception with Venus, plus Saturn in Venusian sign and in trine with Venus.
  • Concerning the wedding chart: <ol type="a">
  • The almuten of chart is Venus, largely conjoint with the 7<sup>th</sup> cusp, placed in a Saturnian sign and in mutual reception with Saturn, her dispositor;
  • The almutens of 7<sup>th</sup> house are Saturn and Mars; Saturn is retrograde and opposes Sun, Mars is exiled and squares the AS and Venus (almuten of chart).  
  • So, even the marriage is apt to love and stability, a sad and brutal end could menace it. Brutal, due of Mars in 4<sup>th</sup> ("la fin des choses", "the end of matters") and of Uranus in 8<sup>th</sup>.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #12 - on: 27.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Geoffrey Hillend
     
    • Personally, I use the equal house system. My first natal chart was an equal house chart. Afterwards, everyone else I met who was interested in astrology said they believed that the Placidus house system was the best system, so I purchased a Placidus natal chart. I changed my mind about ten years later because after careful study, I have found the equal house system to be more relevant for my own chart and a lot of other charts I studied. Since Catherine Zeta Jones has Saturn in Taurus in her 5<sup>th</sup> house in a grand trine with Mars and Venus, an excellent placement for a career in acting, show business and the entertainment business, I think the equal house chart best describes her real life situation. The Placidus system is not so easily vanquished. She has Sun in aspect to Saturn, which is like Saturn in the 5<sup>th</sup> house also. As we know, the planets, signs, houses and aspects are all similar to each other, so it is very important to do a thorough comparison since more often than not we are going to find common themes in all three charts even if the planets change houses. Sometimes a planet in a house in the Placidus system can be equivalent to an aspect in the equal house system or vice versa; the chart that yields the most relevant life information which cannot be found in the other chart system is the best chart. Some astrologers place more importance on the houses than the aspects. Don't just think: Oh, Princess Diana has Mars conjunct both Uranus and Pluto in the 8<sup>th</sup> house in the Placidus system, so Placidus must be correct for her since she dies a violent death. Princess Diana has Mars conjunct both Uranus and Pluto in the 9<sup>th</sup> house in the equal house system which could signify a sudden, violent death abroad since Pluto is similar to the 8<sup>th</sup> house; Pluto is the modern ruler of the 8th house. Finally, Catherine Zeta Jones as Sun conjunct Pluto in her 10<sup>th</sup> house of career in the equal house system, a better placement for an actrice than when in the 9<sup>th</sup> house in the Placidus system. Sun conjunct Pluto is like Pluto in Leo. She has a 12<sup>th</sup> house Neptune in the equal house system, a better placement for an actrice than when in the 11<sup>th</sup> house in the Placidus system.
    • Saturn rules the bones, and Venus rules beauty, and the ascendant is how we appear to others. She has a grand trine involving Mars in her 1<sup>st</sup> house in aspect to both Saturn in Taurus and Venus.
    • Her Saturn in Taurus in the 5<sup>th</sup> house is biquintiling her Sun and Chiron is in opposition to her Sun. She has a lot of air in her chart and she lacks water, so maybe she needs an experienced, mature partner who she can relate on an intellectual level and who is also her friend as well as her lover since she has Uranus conjunct her Sun.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #13 - on: 11.07.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Dem Allan
     
    It is a long running debate with Astrologers as to which is the right house system to use in a birth chart. For myself I nearly always use the Placidus system simply because this is the first house system that I worked with when starting astrology many moons ago. However as an astrologer you should never dismiss other workings. Studying Catherine's chart I have to say that the equal house system does seem to prove the more detailed. If we look first at the equal house birth chart the dominant feature is the stellium of planets in the tenth house of the Ego, aspirations, career and how the public view us directs to Catherine's life. It would be interesting to find out how much her father influenced her, since the tenth house also covers the mode of the father figure in the child's eyes, i.e. the Libra influence. The sun in the tenth is always a positive vibe in terms of career and would clearly make Catherine's main object in life to have a successful career, many actors have this placement as I have found. Uranus Her beauty in the bone structure of her face would show up in her Sagittarius rising and Mars in her first house in trine aspect to her Venus in the 9<sup>th</sup> house, the Sun in Libra can have a positive effect on the beauty depending on other factors in the chart. Attraction to the older man is Saturn the 5<sup>th</sup> house trine to Venus.  
    What's interesting is that Pluto is working for Catherine as it transits her first house, also Michael Douglas is a Libra Sun, and Jupiter has been nicely passing through her 7<sup>th</sup> house the last year.  
    In regard to the other house systems, Kotch and Placidus the stellium is in the 9<sup>th</sup> house of travel and religion, it seems to me that the equal house system has more depth in correlation to Catherine's life, however I would love to hear theories on this from fellow astrologers since the house system debate intrigues me even more.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #14 - on: 01.09.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jonathan Dunn
     
    A few far-flung points... <pre>Vertex 7:59 Leo Saturn 7:54 Taurus </pre> <pre>Sun 2:18 Libra Adonis 2:39 Libra </pre> <pre>Sun 2:18 Libra Adonis 2:39 Libra </pre>  
    Went looking for Aphrodite, interesting about Adonis... <pre>Mars 2:40 Capricorn Dainty 2:48 Capricorn Juno 3:30 Capricorn </pre> <pre>1996TL66 13:53 Pisces rx Chariklo 16:14 Pisces rx </pre> <pre>James Bond 25:07 Virgo Pluto 25:12 Virgo Liebe 25:18 Virgo 'love' Nymphe 25:52 Virgo </pre> <pre>Sirene 21:35 Sagittarius ASC 22:59 Sagittarius </pre> <pre>Node 21:08 Pisces Tantalus 21:17 Virgo</pre>
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #15 - on: 02.09.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Glenn Harris
     
    Any astrologer who picked this marriage time should be shot. The ruler of the wedding 7th is Saturn retrograde! The Moon is square the Sun! It is also square Saturn, and Jupiter, and is ruler of the Ascendant. Venus is angular, at least, but it is square Mars.  
    Its hard to find anything remotely right about this election.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #16 - on: 04.09.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill
     
    I would like to add one more comment about the choice of house systems...and why the Equal House system works best for me...I am a very mathematically oriented astrologer, which means that I could not resist studying the spherical geometry aspect of astrology...the placement of the zodiacal signs is not something someone just decided one day...they are not points in the sky based on the stars...they are actually based on the orbit and rotation of the Earth...as she spins, she kicks up different kinds of energy ('zodiac' means 'circle of life', and we all know that life = energy...I don't think that the name was based on the fact that most of the signs are named after animals, so much as the fact that the zodiacal belt is energy) depending upon your location...there is a cord of energy that connects the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun...she is like a tetherball...as she moves around the Sun, she creates a dish of energy called her orbit...but there is an additional motion to add...she spins on an axis that is slightly tilted, the tilt being called the obliquity...as you might guess, the equator of the Earth connects with the dish of her orbit...where it 'runs into' the dish is the point 0 Aries and its opposite 0 Libra (their meanings can be ascertained from this motion)...where the equator is farthest away from the dish are the other two cardinal points 0 Cancer and 0 Capricorn...their meanings of being 'partitioned away' can be derived from that...all other points lay on the dish where it surrounds the Earth...after careful thought their meanings are found...now the center of the Earth has a definite zodiacal location in relation to your own location on the Earth...after careful examination of the geometry of the situation, I have found that the center of the Earth is exactly in square to the ascendant of a location...so I believe that this is the rightful location of the 4th House of a chart, and all other houses are to be based on that...thus I remove myself from the soapbox.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #17 - on: 05.09.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Dana (East Tennessee -- Smoky Mountain Mystic)
     
    Another Libra 'Hollywood' couple is Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins ... who fell in love while filming Bull Durham. Here the age difference is the other way 'round (Sue - 4th October 1946; Tim - 16th October 1959) but I think taking the time to compare/contrast these two very different couples is worthwhile. Which marriage is 'stronger', or most Archetypal Libran? Though I'm not a professional Astrologer, I do come from 'a long line of mystics' (I'm a very old soul) and I think we should use whatever Chart-making method is working in the most pragmatic way for the era in which we have been incarnated. I had a 'professional' Astrologer tell me (15 months ago) that I'm a "walking paradox" ...based on the Placidus method She and I were both using at the time. Recently I've been using Koch - for no particular reason, other than its origin of use - for comparison sake. This article has provoked me to look at my own Natal Chart using the Equal House method. I have a Capricorn Mars - Libra Moon square; which is my "project" in this life-time. I've now 'Bin Converted' to Equal house!!!! On 'Mike & Cathy': I've known Librans to be very capable of being 'users' - not maliciously though.
    I think these two are using each other to get what they both want...but it won't last after one or the other gets what he or she wants. If he doesn't die 1st, she'll 'dump him' for a younger man... eventually. (Personally, I was disquieted when I heard that she had married a Jew.) I think that religion will create a cold under-current in the deeper waters of this relationship.
    I print up a Natal Chart for the 'uninitiated' for free -- then tell 'em to "get professional help", after using this info. to elevate their own understanding of themselves. I consider Astrology to be a very "personal" and subjective thing. Since these 'celebs.' are "in the public eye" we think it makes them 'fair game' for the rest of us. "Ally McBeal's Parents" live in my city, and Calista is still the 'cheerleader type' (Scorpio Sun - Aquarius Moon) out in public when she comes for a visit, but she has a 'private life' too! [Someone who is close to her Mom told me that she isn't like 'Ally' at all...why do you think she adopted Liam? - she needs some private time to balance her Celebrity] Point being that we should use the knowledge of the Stars (the ones in the sky) for a higher purpose than analyzing the Stars of the [movie] stars. Let's raise the consciousness of everyone we meet in this life!!
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #18 - on: 28.09.2002 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jasmina Knezevic
     
    1.In her case Equal house chart is the best one. 2.Mars in I trigon Venus at 2. Virgo 3.Saturn in V,Rx Mercur at 10.Libra(10 degree is the Saturn degree),her VII house begin at 22.degree which is also Saturn degree.
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    re: Catherine Zeta-Jones
    « Reply #19 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
     
    reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza Hall
     
    1. A weird thing I've found is that Equal House tends to work for Europeans while Placidus tends to work for Americans!! By "work" I mean, accurately describe their psychology and their lives. There is some crossover, I'm not saying Placidus charts are irrelevant for Europeans; I mean, Ms. Zeta-Jones is very famous (loaded Equal 10th house), but she also married a foreigner (7th ruler Mercury in Placidus 9th) and lives in America, which to her is a foreign country (loaded Placidus 9th house). But Equal House really works for Europeans, while I haven't seen it work so well for Americans.
    I think someone needs to collect charts of people who have big differences between their charts in different house systems (many charts are pretty much the same in both), so that we can get more than anecdotal insight into the differences.
    2. Bone structure, beauty--Mars rising in Capricorn, trine Saturn and Venus. This chart is a great example of the power of first-house planets to completely re-calibrate a chart: Sagittarius rising is, shall we say, not normally descriptive of an elegant person; they're more breezy, outdoorsy, friendly, etc. But Zeta-Jones is all "classic movie star elegance"--she's very glamorous and elegant, no girl next door or tomboy or avant-garde looks here. Her Mars Rising in Capricorn describes that. The only other Sag Rising person I can think of who ever was in the habit of looking elegant is Princess Diana, and she had Saturn in Capricorn in the first, conjunct chart ruler Jupiter (which was in the 2nd).
    3. I see her marrying a foreigner--7th house ruler Mercury in the 9th conjunct Jupiter. And Mercury is inconjunct Saturn, so yes, there's a bit of an "older man" signature there. That wouldn't be my first guess for a marriage partner, though, and perhaps the importance of his age is being exaggerated; what she clearly was looking for in a partner was someone smart, successful and powerful (Mercury elevated close to MC, conjunct Sun; Sun conjunct Pluto), perhaps involved in the arts (Libra), and foreign (7th ruler in 9th conjunct Jupiter).  
    She was mainly LOOKING FOR SOMEONE FROM WHOM SHE COULD LEARN (Gemini on 7th, Mercury, Jupiter, 9th), and she may have simply not found anyone she thought had anything to teach her in her own age group.
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