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Astro-Databank: Michael (1958) Jackson (Read 10738 times)
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Astro-Databank: Michael (1958) Jackson
« on: 20.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Michael (1958) Jackson, born 29 August 1958 at 12:00 noon in Gary IN
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

What's going on in Michael Jackson's chart these days?!!  He has been the subject of two prime time exposés in one week and tonight he is airing "The Footage You Were Never Meant to See. "  Personally, I'm having a hard time figuring out whether I am more upset by Michael's lack of judgment in having sleepovers with young boys or by the way Martin Bashir praised Michael's parenting to his face, then dropped it from the interview and instead included insinuating and disturbing voiceovers.  Let's look at his chart to find out:
  • Why does this man identify with Peter Pan?  He claims that he just loves the innocence of children. With that kind of fame and money, it must be hard for him to find adults who are interested in who he is behind the trappings. Building a theme park called "Neverland" and making best friends with pre-pubescent boys demonstrates a serious overcompensation for a lost childhood. What is the AstroSignature of a Peter Pan complex as seen in his chart?
  • What is his obsession with masks all about?  He claims to have had only two plastic surgeries, but his plastic surgeon's partner claims it is more like 50.  Michael even has his children wear masks to hide their real faces.
  • Why now? What is going on in his chart this week that makes him such a focus for media attention?  What do the planets indicate about the purpose of the attention?
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #1 - on: 20.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Diana Riviere
 
I think we have a miss calculation on the chart. Western Tropical ASC should be 13.00 Scorpio
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #2 - on: 20.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Linda
 
Noel Tyl rectified Michael's chart to August 29, 1958, 11:57 P.M. in Gary, Indiana. Gemini rising. There was a recent article on his site www.noeltyl.com which I believe is gone now. That would put his Neptune - Jupiter conjunct in the 5th house. Considering his obsession with children for better or worse that would make sense. I was born September 3, 1958 which is four days after Michael and living with the Neptune Jupiter conjunction myself it works. My Neptune is within 29 seconds of rising at my birth conjunct Jupiter. That would currently give him Pluto conjunct Saturn transiting with Saturn being his 8th house ruler which also goes along with his current difficulties. Also, he would currently have Pluto opposite his Ascendent.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #3 - on: 20.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User maki
 
1. R Mercur (allways child) Jupiter in 12 hous (guardian angel - innocence child) in Libra (he likes) 2. Obsession with masks. Neptiun in Scorpio (obssesion with masks). The ruller of 5 house (his children) is Neptun (mask) in 12 house (hide) 3. Nept conj. Merc trans. his 3, house.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #4 - on: 20.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
Michael Jackson just said on his special...the thoughts of every Neptune conjunct Jupiter (mine is exactly conjunct my Ascendent born 4 days after Michael) - No matter how good your intentions are there is always some mean spirited person trying to bring you down...ohhhh Neptune...victimized...misunderstood...those who have such a truly utopian outlook and a lack of understanding of how the world can possibly be the way it is...
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #5 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marjorie Orr
 
A controlled and controlling, highly strung Virgo with Pluto close to his Sun, his greatest fear is of chaos, so he rigidly imposes his own rules on his lifestyle. His Moon in Pisces opposite his Sun (born on the Full Moon) suggests parents who were diametrically opposed in temperament. In adult life he tends to swing from extreme to extreme, never feeling totally satisfied with anything or anyone. He wants what he does not have, and when he gets it promptly stops wanting it. With Saturn in Sagittarius in square to both his Sun and Moon, he undoubtedly had a bleak childhood with no emotional support from either parent. Life was about survival at the most basic level. He perceived his parents as rigid, disciplinarian, rejecting and possessive which is a difficult combination to handle. He never felt an individual in his own right; his basic sense of identity never mind his self esteem obviously irrevocably damaged. This has made him obsessive, depressive, always feeling an outsider. Tragically but inevitably he is treating his own children in the same way as objects - 'presents from his wife' handed over like boxes of chocolates. An emphasised and afflicted Saturn in Sagittarius gives him heightened fear of disapproval and deep resentment when he feels criticised. He is self righteous to a marked degree, insisting that everyone agree with his philosophy of life. He even imposes his own pathological need to wear a mask on his children, insisting their faces be covered at all times. Jupiter close to Neptune is the signature of the fantasist, who wants to look charitable and kind, but is often hypocritical. He hides his darker side from others and probably himself. The writer, Laurens Van Der Post, whose sham of a life was only revealed after his death, shared this conjunction. Known as the aspect of 'false happiness' it will be why Jackson's Never Never Land was created, to give him a marshmallow land creation, where life is eternal Peter Pan make believe. Venus in Leo gives a love of flamboyant display in parties and at home, a liking for children and in some individuals with this placing an over concern with sex. Close to Uranus, he is fickle in his affections, constantly switching on and off. With a square to Mars in earthy Taurus, he loathes interference in any form, and can be wilfully determined about fulfilling his own needs. Mars in Taurus is acquisitive with a strong desire for money. Like Venus in Leo it is also highly possessive, jealous, and sensual. Sexual jealousy can be a problem with Mars in Taurus. The square between Venus and Mars makes him emotionally sensitive, but not careful about the sensitivity of others. If he is so asexual why was there so much crotch clutching in the dance routines of early videos and stage performances? Present Influences: Without a birth time the exact position of the Moon cannot be established, but Pluto is certainly crossing Saturn at the moment (exact from the end of January to end of May 2003) and this bleak influence repeats to the end of 2004. Since Saturn is tied into the Moon on his chart, this is a doubly heavy, discouraging transit, bringing a sense of complete paralysis both emotionally and professionally. Any progress can only be made through extreme effort. Uranus will also square his Pluto from late April to late July 2003, rattling the bars of his iron control. He will be forced to give up his driving compulsion to be in charge of his destiny and lifestyle. Again this will be part of the pattern of his life for two years ahead. Also in 2004 Uranus squares his Sun which again will bring unexpected and unwanted changes.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #6 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anthony Louis
 
It is difficult to say much with assurance without an accurate birthtime. His Peter Pan complex and the reasons for his current notoriety most likely will be revealed in the angles (ASC for personality and MC for current publicity). Maybe we should all try to rectify this chart as an exercise. With Sun in Virgo (a negative feminine sign) he is likely to be shy and introverted. At the same time his Sun's dispositor lies as part of a stellim in Leo (a positive masculine sign). Hence there is a basic conflict between being ingoing and outgoing. The Sun/Pluto conjunction opposite the Moon is very powerful and often reflects problematic relationships with parents and caregivers. He probably feels victimized and has a martyr complex. His sexual eccentricies are reflected in the Venus/Uranus (atypical senual pleasures) conjunction in passionate Leo, a sign associated with children. He likes boys in ways that are not the norm (Uranus-Venus-Leo). The square from Mars in Taurus to the Uranus/Venus in Leo channels his sex drive (Mars) strongly (square) in this unusual direction (Uranus/Venus/Leo). The current high profile of his sex life is at least in part related to the current transiting Jupiter in Leo opposite transiting Uranus in Aquarius falling upon his natal Uranus/Venus in Leo and in square to his natal Mars in Taurus. Transiting Jupiter opposite Uranus on this part of his chart expands awareness of the unusual (natal Uranus) aspects of his personality and disires (natal Venus). There must also be some current significant activity in his 10th house or affecting the ruler of the 10th, but we don't know what those are.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #7 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jane Griscti
 
1. Why does this man identify with Peter Pan? He claims that he just loves the innocence of children. With all his fame and money, it must be hard for him to find adults who are interested in "the real Michael" behind the trappings. Building a theme park called "Neverland" and making best friends of pre-pubescent boys demonstrates a serious overcompensation for a lost childhood. What is the AstroSignature of a Peter Pan complex as seen in his chart?
Looking solely at the planet positions, the Jupiter/Neptune conjunction sextile Mercury might indicate the Peter Pan complex. Jupiter is in Libra (relationships) and Neptune in Scorpio (sex) -- extravagent fantasys relating to partners and sex with opportunity (sextile) to involve children (Mercury natural ruler of young boys in Leo, natural sign of 5th house of children). Pluto conjunct Mercury adds a darker element of compulsion to the mix.  
Without an accurate birth time it's impossible to say where in his life the fantasy and compulsion play out.  
2. What is his obsession with masks all about? He claims to have had only two plastic surgeries, but his plastic surgeon's partner claims it is more like 50. Michael even has his children wear masks to hide their real faces.
I'm not sure what planet rules masks; at a guess, I'd give them to Venus which is in theatrical Leo and conjunct Uranus who likes the unusual. Would also give his affections (Venus) a quirky (Uranus) slant.
The plastic surgery is definitely taken to extremes; surgery is ruled by Mars which is in detriment in Taurus and square his Leo planets. It's almost as if he's trying to deface himself ... the inappropriate expression of what would normally be a playful element.
3. Why now? What is going on in his chart this week to make him put such a focus on media attention? What do the planets indicate about the purpose of the attention? Apparently Martin Bashir praised Michael's parenting to his face, then dropped it from the interview so he could insert insinuating and disturbing voiceovers. Is the deception in the chart?
Prog Mars inconjunct Neptune, square Pluto Prog Mercury sextile Mercury
Mars always brings strife, Neptune would add an element of deceit and Pluto rules under-handed actions. Robert Zoller states that if a planet is in a feminine sign, the effect is brought to the native; in a masculine sign, the native instigates the effect. Here Neptune and Pluto are in feminine signs; the deceit and under-handed elements are brought to him but Mars is in a masculine sign (Gemini) indicating it is his own actions, talking, that is causing the difficulty. The Mercury sextile Mercury is further testament to him talking to much.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #8 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Joan Wegrzyn
 
Good Morning,
Your site was the first place I looked after seeing the first Michael Jackson interview. When I didn't find his chart there I searched out onto the internet and found his birth date and city. Then I went to http://www.astro.com/atlas/atlquest-eng.html and selected a free horoscope and put his birth data in for a noon birth time. This then gives you a page to select the type of horoscope you want displayed. I selected the link titled, your VIP astro twins, hoping that the real Michael Jackson's birth chart and time would be there. It was. Listed from the DAV/VIP database his birth time was 11:45 PM giving him a Gemini Ascendant. I hope this clears up the birth time confusion.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #9 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
Goodness...My chart is exactly the same as Michael's aspects, planets in the same signs and degrees (born same year and virtually the same day) and all the reasons you gave for the aspects and so on...simply does not apply to me at all. I'm not critizing you but rather commenting on how difficult it is to judge astrologically... I also love children (Neptune/Jupiter conjunct with Pisces ruling my 5th house). I also totally enjoy spending time with children because they are indeed much less judgmental and so on then most adults. I can truely have fun with children and identify with them too...but I would never abuse a child. And frankly...I'm not so sure he really has either. It's amazing how much you can be taken advantage of with Jupiter-Neptune conjunct where it hits in your chart. With Gemini rising it's in his 5th house...that says a lot to me.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #10 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
I've lived with Neptune conjunct Jupiter all of my life (infact in my chart the Neptune is within 29 seconds of rising) and I know many born close to me and honestly as long as that Neptune Jupiter makes good aspects in our charts we are sincere, extremely caring people. Wish there were more of us in the world sometimes...!
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #11 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User A1ACAPELLA
 
Having much sensitivity for Michael's plight same rising ...My Moon Conj Pluto in the middle his Stellium, I have always understood him. Having been a singer dancer performer made a living singing his stuff in the eighties. Third, being an astral detective and computer 30 years heavily concentrating on celebs and musicians..(someone could write a book on Mars in Taurus and vocal/performers) And finally living with a saintly, innocent generous lover of children five planet Leo (same Stellium late Leo early Virg) my husband for eighteen years. Seeing so much cynicism Michael is a bright spot in this ridiculous time we find ourselves in. I am born on Uri Geller's birthday (day of the prophet, seer). I can see for miles and miles. I dont think Michael is capable of deceit at all.. Its an Alice in Wonderland chart. I watched the show several times. Occurs to me, this obsession with Michael is to take the heat off one George W. Now there's an obsession America should get behind. Agreeing with Uri Gellers sensitive assessment, MJ is not capable of such deception and ugliness as is being projected on him. A Nept Scorp Ascendant projectified like a blank canvas for everyone else's stuff. Painting up the face is part of my war paint minimum defence of going out in world. I have looked just like Liz Taylor since the beginning.. or maybe that Cleopatra movie got to all of us Nept in Scorp rising. Love of war paint eyeliner..never leaves home with out it. If you gotta erase the acne and emulate the best why not go with the goddess queen of Egypt. Scorps have to protect themselves with "dont mess with me..vibes". Best defence is always a great presence. Enter makeup. Of course he has to protect the innocents with masks. And blankets. No brainer. The leg-shaking thing...I suspect is a reaction to all the hostility and daggers aimed at him through the media. (Or diet pills.) Having Neptune in Scorp on Asc Pluto Moon Virgo I have to paint (improve/transform/redo) everything in sight. My daughter had blonde highlights early as do all the nieces. The mask thing. You learn glamour if you lived through the fab 60s.Cher, Bob Mackie makeup and surgery are like breathing. I tend to make over/save everyone who enters my sphere. Spend a fortune on makeup photo shoots..obsessed with capturing/transforming everyone into the ideal.. Virgo like perfection and idealistic Neptunian femininity and allure. The average mid westerner in their gray sweatsuit mentality is not going to get it. No flaair at allll...and jealous as hell. But they, like all those talk show blowhards, are going to voice their very average joe six-pack opinions. Everyone's got an opinion and I shouldn't be shocked (but am) and saddened to see their filthy projections. The glamorous life..can go a little beyond the "normal" persons range of understanding. They would never dream of covering up their acne for vanity or humanity. Or their fifty pounds of excess dairy products. I'd like to see Martin B's spoilsport chart. Snake in the grass. I hope you dont bring on Michael's breakdown for the filthy lucre you insipid little grey mole pinhead one note wonder. Nice claim to fame you vapid little worm. Just another parasite on Michael's back. I have experience with such hideous projections. Why cant people understand children are the hope and the only sweetness on the earth..you dont have to make love to honey to know it is sweet. You dont even have to taste it. The smell, the beauty, coloring, texture...like a painting, you dont have to "go there" to appreciate the beauty. Yet it is so alarming to know that so many people have such filthy minds. As a woman I can get away with such baby love. He has a lot of yin energy..1/2 female planets, he is the kids mom. And dad. Such a little mother hen. He can do all roles. The consummate performer heart of gold. Leo Stellium striving for perfection as he does is a no brainer for anyone who has ever been with a mile of a anything Virgo. Also cut off.. Chiseling exclusive a healthy defense mechanism he has needed with those parents. And lifestyle.
Scorp rising. Neptune close. Love of masks..I have more makeup than max factor and can go from crypt to young Liz Taylor in 15 minutes. So theatrical. My house is peewees playhouse colorful, Disney is utopia. Much Leo in tenth/fifth show off see jack McFarland his perfect soulmate peterpan..love of beauty and art..Jup Libra. Close to Nept. Moon in Pisces actress. see mamma figure Liz Taylor.. (All that Leo in fifth) Best parents in the world are right at that intersection of Leo Virgo. Too love children, beauty and innocence and I'm no hurry to punish them with adulthood any sooner than i would make that love sexual...Europeans understand and let kids sleep in the family bed...run around naked in fountains in adolescence.
[continued in next posting]
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #12 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by A1ACAPELLA
We are so American puritanical rigid thinkers suspicious of love..assuming its sex. He could be a celibate priest if it weren't for his love of gold and art. Okay maybe a pope. Michael Jackson for popedom. That very Italian and the beaugeraou cupid like portrait behind him in the show are a tribute to that innocent maternal kind of baby cupid flesh lovers. You dont have to screw it to love it...that's why its art. He is a devoted fan. Not a pedophile...he is asexual. On the other hand....here is where I get preachy.. The only phonyness he has is the nasty part all music makers insist on these days with the crotch grabbing. That dont make you a man or sexual...very transparent attempt at being a man...not fooled. Ditto everyone who is whoring themselves out there to sell records. The kids are watching.. As a portrait artist die hard expressive sorry expressive...mother and child father and child the subject of many of my portraits..beauty at its best age, perfection. Children before hormones kick in. Some people in the midwest Germanic thickheaded thinking are simply not artistic...simply stomped out early on. Hurry up grow up pay taxes. I respect him for rising above and not giving up like that moon might have him do eventually. He is absolutely right to isolate and give up on adult relationships. Except with like-minded sweethearts. Good luck, Michael you are a big target...meat on the hoof. A walking atm. For the pimps who pawn their kids off on you. Looking for a piece of the pie.  
Leo/Virgo he's a mom and dad...he's the best of both..and moon oppose Sun. His mom hates dad..object of that union , he cant like his face and hates being stared at. His parents are heavy on the shame and blame game...and he would never repeat that sordid history..enter the surgery and masks..for all..its protection from the evil eye. Some cultures cover their babies for that reason alone. He's very sensitive about the jealousy of the teachers..you aren't that special...crap from stupid teachers. He calls a spade a spade..such honesty was sooooo refreshing...almost made me admire Virgos again. The show had a restorative quality for me astrologically.  
 He can adapt to any situation..Moon Pisces.. and is rising above and making the best of it...but it can be wearisome. Trying to save the world while fending off jealous sharks like Martin at every turn. Why would any parent or greedy uncle? Sue Micheal Jackson after letting the kid in his palatial bedroom paradise. Who is going to want to sleep in a guest unit? Yet he is defiantly self righteous about his motives and let the filthy minded stew in there own juices is very fixed Leo Virgo defense. A lifestyle so isolated it takes enormous aping up to deal with the circus like atmosphere. Its the righteous indignation many would percieve as arrogance at the dangling incident. A cover for the high-strung hypersensitive fuss budget Stellium opposing Pisces Moon. Talk about oscillating..I'd have to have some serious diet pills to amp up and then some heavy sedatives to forget the ultra sensitivity of having such a chaotic lifestyle Or dance it off. I wonder what Quincy has to say..world wise and weary Pisces...he would know. I wish I had an edit button. And coffee. Sorry for the repetitions. Love your site!!!
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #13 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
We have re-rectified Michael Jackson´s chart(29Aug1958, 11:53 PM, CDT, Gary, Indiana) using our own methodology and data, and can confirm that Basil Fearrington´s late evening time is correct. Other astrologers might improve their rectification skills by using the very simple and reliable technique of comparing transits to angles and house cusps. This only works with Koch, however, which is based on an equal-time tri-section of the diurnal arc and is the one correct house system.
 01) 09Jul1981: Jackson Five begin 36-city tour. Sun 107* trine natal Moon. 02) 25Mar1983: films first "moonwalk". Progressed MC 347* = Moon. Sun-Mercury 4*= eleventh cusp. 03) 16May1983: "moonwalk" on TV. Sun 55* square ruler Mercury. 04) 27Jan1984: hair catches fire. Mercury 283* quincunx Uranus. 05) 27Feb1984: Pepsi ad on MTV. Mars 231* square MC. 06) 28Jan1985: records "We are the World". Uranus 256*47´= Descendant. 07) 19Sep1986: false PR he slept in oxygen chamber. Jupiter Rx 346*46´= Moon square Asc. 08) 08Jun1987: leaves Jehovah´s Witnesses. Sun 77*= Asc. and square Moon. 09) 31Aug1987: "Bad" album. Mercury 167* opp. Moon. 10) 14Nov1991: "Black or White" album. Sun 231* square MC. Saturn 301*= ninth cusp. 11) 10Feb1993: Oprah interview. Saturn-Sun 321*= MC. 12) 21Mar1993: 15-year $890 million Sony contract. Pluto Rx 235*2x´ T-square with Saturn(rules eighth house of other people´s money) 325* opp. natal ruler Mercury 145*. 13) 14Sep1993: suit by young teenager Jordan Chandler. Venus 141*= IC. 14) 28Dec1993: Chandler graphically describes homosexual acts. Uranus 291*22´ quincunx(possibly partile) IC. 15) lateJan1994: suit settled out of court. Converse Asc. 32* opp. Neptune and Converse MC 287* quincunx Venus. 16) 15Feb1994: not guilty of plagiarizing "Dangerous". Mercury Rx 336* opp. Sun. 17) 07-08Feb1996: finishes Prague HIStory tour and leaves on polemical Brazil trip with Spike Lee. Uranus 301*= ninth cusp. 18) 24Mar1996: Brazilian TV shows "They don´t care about us" clip. Sun 4*= eleventh cusp. 19) 06May1997: member of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Venus 55* square Mercury and Mars 167* opp. Moon. 20) 27Jun1999: falls on Munich stage. Saturn 44* semi-quincunx Mercury 121*= third cusp. 21) 08Oct1999: Debbie Rowe requests divorce. Neptune Rx 301*36´= ninth cusp. 22) 26Sep2001, 5PM, EDT: "You rock my world" video on MTV. Uranus Rx 321*22´= MC(possibly partile). 23) 30Oct2001: "Invincible" album. Mars 301*= ninth cusp. 24) 06Jul2002: he and Al Sharpton attack "devil" Tommy Mottola. Mars 115* ssx Venus 145*= ruler Mercury. 25) 21Nov2002: visits Berlin zoo. Pluto(ruler of sixth house of animals) 256*45´= Descendant.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #14 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Alice
 
As for the time of birth--Astrodatabank doubts Fearrington's statement re Jackson's birth time because Fearrington says he got it while playing the last Jackson tour, which was "in 1984". I am puzzled by this since Michael Jackson has toured a number of times since then--87-89, 92-93, and 96-97.
I doubt Fearrington's Gemini rising chart for Jackson. It doesn't "feel like" Jackson to me. But I'm still puzzled by the "last tour" thing. When did Fearrington open for Jackson?
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #15 - on: 21.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Katrina
 
I think this is the chart of a deeply wounded person with the T-Square of Chiron, Mars, Uranus, Venus, & Mercury. While it does show the capability to reach the masses in a positive way with Sun conjunct Pluto sextile Neptune, the negative seems to outweigh the positive here. It is a shame he doesn't use some of his enormous wealth to invest in the help that he so desperately needs.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #16 - on: 22.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sam
 
I believe the chart I saw for Micheal was also a speculative time, probably Gemini rising -- it had his Venus Uranus conjunction in the third house, which felt right at the time. Of course that was when he was wearing the one glittery glove.  
I do like the like idea of Gemini rising for his multiple faces.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #17 - on: 22.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ms. Pink
 
I just wanted to add, for anyone who wants to read more speculative comments on this topic, that the reference to MJ on Noel Tyl's site was in the discussion forum (http://www.noeltyl.com/cgibin/index.cgi) and there are now several threads containing comments there... and I, too, came to Astrodatabank RIGHT after seeing the interview... I'm so glad to see all this intelligent discourse and for the chance to make some sense of it all. I watched the latest ("interview we were never meant to see") last week and it left me feeling, above all, profound sympathy.
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #18 - on: 23.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Linda
 
Yikes! I also have Neptune rising exact conjunct a Scorpio Ascendent - sorry no black mascara or eyeliner for me!! It just reminds us of how we have to look at the entire chart to understand someone!
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re: Michael (1958) Jackson
« Reply #19 - on: 24.02.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Michael Bradford
 
In the Vedic system it is essential to first rectify a chart before making any kind of statement about it. The correct chart for MJ must show all of the following features:
1. a stellar career with staggering wealth 2. a career as a showy, energetic performer, potentially involving siblings 3. strong 1st lord 4. an unusual appearance and facial surgeries 5. a secretive nature and isolated life 6. costly scandals involving obsessive, improper relationships with children
Since we are looking for a truly 'stellar' career, let us see what happens when we put the Sun, the only true 'star' of the nine grahas (planets), in the 10th bhava (house) of career. The Sun is thus in his own rashi (constellation) of Leo with Mercury, opposite the Moon in Aquarius in the 4th bhava. This has the potential for being a stellar combination as Moon, Sun and Mercury rule the 9th, 10th and 11th bhavas respectively. Sun and Moon form the best Raja Yoga (9th and 10th lords in mutual aspect or association in good bhavas). Sun and Mercury form a Buddha-Aditya yoga for intelligence, and 9th lord Moon and 11th lord Mercury form a superlative Dhana (wealth) yoga. What makes all these yogas a truly stellar combination is that all three grahas have strength - the Sun is swakshetra (own rashi) while Mercury is retrograde and the Moon is full. Sun and Moon also possess additional power as they both have their best dig bala placement (directional strength).
It is true that a Taurus lagna (ascendant) would also bring the same 3 grahas across the 4 - 10 axis as does the Scorpio lagna described above, but the 10th bhava would then be ruled by Saturn in the 7th, forming no yogas, and both Sun and Moon would lose their dig bala strength. Still an excellent career indication, but definitely not 'stellar'.
Mercury, sitting in the 10th house of career, is the lord of both the 11th house of elder siblings and the 8th house of scandal, both of which have been major themes in his career. The lord of the 3rd house of younger siblings, Saturn, sits in his 1st house, adding to the importance of siblings in his life. The third house also rules performing, and the presence of lord Saturn in the 1st house indicates that this will be a major theme in his life. Saturn sits in Scorpio, the rashi which rules the sexual organs, and his performing style sometimes graphically reflects this placement. His high-energy style is also a consequence of 1st lord Mars, strongly conditioned in his own rashi of Aries, throwing his drishti (aspect) on the 1st house (the physical body), which happens to be his own rashi Scorpio, giving him great energy and personal charisma.
The face is indicated by the 2nd bhava (Sagittarius), the 2nd lord (Jupiter), and the 2nd rashi (Taurus). His unusual appearance comes partly from Saturn in the 1st bhava aspecting the 2nd rashi Taurus, and the association of the nodes of the Moon with 1st lord Mars (appearance), and 2nd lord Jupiter (the face). Regarding his surgeries, Saturn can indicate disfigurement, but more importantly Mars, (who is known as 'the cutter') sits in the 6th bhava of acute health problems and throws his drishti on both 2nd lord Jupiter (the face) and the 1st house (physical body), indicating multiple surgeries initiated by him. This Mars also conjoins violence-prone Ketu, the south node of the Moon, and occupies the nakshatra (lunar mansion) Krittika, the symbol for which is a sharp cutting tool.
Secretiveness is a characteristic of both Saturn and the nodes of the Moon. Saturn sits in MJ's 1st bhava in Scorpio (a secretive rashi) and the nodes powerfully impact 1st lord Mars and 5th / 2nd lord Jupiter, who rules both children and the face (i.e. masks). Powerful 1st lord Mars' aspect on Jupiter thus leads MJ to make the children (Jupiter) around him wear masks (the nodes). His isolation is indicated by the Moon who sits in the lunar mansion of Shatabhisha, which is associated with confinement, separation and loneliness, located in the 4th bhava (his many opulent mansions).
Jupiter doubly represents children in MJ's chart as both natural significator of children and lord of the 5th bhava. Jupiter (a male graha) tenants the 12th house of 'bed pleasures' and mutually aspects 1st lord Mars, connecting all these themes in his life. This strong connection between him (Mars) and children (Jupiter) reflects his obsession (the nodes) with youth. The powerful involvement of the nodes of the Moon, who are natural troublemakers, brings the element of scandal into this dynamic.
[continued in next posting]
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