•    
    Current Planets
    31-Oct-2014, 06:53 UT/GMT
    Sun7Scorpio46'21"14s06
    Moon10Aquarius0'23"13s00
    Mercury19Libra18'22"5s39
    Venus9Scorpio17'46"13s48
    Mars3Capricorn35'17"24s54
    Jupiter20Leo20' 1"15n18
    Saturn23Scorpio47'28"16s51
    Uranus13Aries36' 6"r4n44
    Neptune4Pisces52'12"r10s25
    Pluto11Capricorn22' 1"20s40
    TrueNode19Libra7'50"7s29
    Chiron13Pisces21'41"r1s58
    Explanations of the symbols
    Chart of the moment
| My Astro | Forum | FAQ
Welcome as a guest in the Astrodienst forum. You can login to your Astro profile or register as a forum member.You can also remain in the guest status and navigate through this forum as a reader. 31.10.2014 at 06:53 [UT]
 
 Forum Rules Home Help Search  
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Astro-Databank: Kurt Cobain (Read 2541 times)
Astro-Databank
Global Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor
***




Posts: 204
Astro-Databank: Kurt Cobain
« on: 28.10.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Kurt Cobain, born 20 February 1967 at 7:20 PM in Aberdeen WA
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

Kurt Cobain's journals were released to the public last week. We don't often get a look at the interior of the public figures that we study. The interior view is so important to a full astrological understanding of a person because astrology has so much to say about what drives people from the inside. We have a biography and link to the Newsweek cover story with the diary entries on-line. As one might expect the chart is full of Pisces energy, but I did not expect nine trines!
  • Kurt Cobain changed the tone of Rock music in the 90's. What makes this the chart of a revolutionary leader? Cobain was extremely uncomfortable with his leadership, fame, and fortune. Why?
  • Cobain turned to heroin when the doctors could not figure out how to manage a stomach ailment that would burn so badly that he would be doubled over in bed for days. It was not an ulcer and did not increase at times of stress. Does astrology give any clues about the meaning of this ailment?
  • What cosmic influences were bearing down upon him at the time of his suicide - 4/05/1994, 7:00 PM PDT, Seattle? What message was the cosmos sending?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #1 - on: 22.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ruscle Bloke
 
Courtney Love's birth data is as follows:
9 July 1964 8:32 AM San Francisco, CA
Source: I spoke with her father, who was was there. CL lies often about her birth data, especially the year.  
She is a Leo rising, Sun conj. Moon in Cancer (11th house), Mars conj. Venus in Gemini, and with Mars square Pluto. Mars is in 10th house and Pluto in the 1st house. Look at Kurt's chart and you will find he has so much water, he was drowning.
Many people feel that Kurt Cobain did not kill himself. There are just too many mysteries surrounding his death. For starters, Kurt was filing for divorce and had he done so, Miss Luv would have at best gotten half his fortune. As it turned out, she got $35 Million from his death. There are all sorts of discrepencies....the 'suicide note' makes no sense...as a suicide note but plenty of sense as a note to his fans explaining why he was leaving the band. Kurt had purchased an airplane ticket and was going to visit Michael Stipes (lead singer of R.E.M.) and that has been verified. The police took their time to do their work, and almost a month after his death, dusted the gun, the shot gun shells and the pen used to write the 'suicide' note and found no readable fingerprints. The television show "Unsolved Mysteries" ran a segment on Kurt's death, and had two different handwriting experts examine the 'suicide letter' and both decided that the note was written by two different people, that some writing had been added to the top and bottom, the only parts of the note that it appear as a suicide note.
And the most disturbing is that Kurt had a level of heroin in his system (1.52mg/liter of blood, morphine) that would have killed him instantly. That is an incredible amount of drugs, even for a seasoned user. You can read more about this in the book, "Who Killed Kurt Cobain: The Mysterious Death of an Icon" written by Ian Halperin and Max Wallace.  
As for the Rome incident, the overdosed drug was Rohypnol, Miss Luv's perscription. Some think he was poisoned that night. If you recall his reaction immediately following that incident, he appeared to have no idea what had really happened.
For more information on this, visit the website, http://www.justiceforkurt.com/ .
I'd love to see some astrological dialogue about this! At one point, I considered writing an article comparing their charts, focusing on Miss Luv's Mars sq. Pluto aspect.
Regarding Kurt's stomach ailments, let me quote a section from the above cited book by Halperin/Wallace, p. 86...
"In the summer of 1993, Kurt experienced what he called "a miracle." After years of consulting specialists about his debilitating stomach pain, he found a doctor who finally diagnosed the problem -- a pinched nerve relating to his scoliosis. Once the problem was diagnosed, it became treatable and Kurt finally rid himself of his daily agony."
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #2 - on: 22.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User John W. Hines
 
Kurt's problem with drugs is indicated by the aspects of Neptune. There are trines and a sextile. This indicates that the habit was too pleasant. Jupiter, ruler of the 4th house (the stomach) is in Cancer (the stomach) and squares Mars, which is in Scorpio. Could it be repressed anger?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #3 - on: 22.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Diane Clarke
 
"Pisces, Virgo rising is a very good sign" -- so the song goes. It was a challenging combination for Kurt Cobain, however, with both his Sun & Mercury (the chart's ruler) in Pisces in the 6th house. A strong escapism is indicated through this position and fortunately, he had found a healthy outlet through musical & artistic expression. Unfortunately, his early (legal) drug use may have set the stage for his later, more deadly addictions -- along with his discomfort with fame (Virgo ascendants are more comfortable behind the scenes) and his stomach ailment. Those with Moon in Cancer (the sign associated with the stomach) can experience tummy troubles when there are undigested emotions, particularly those involving the mother. It is highly likely that his unresolved anger from his parents' divorce, and his separation from his mother at a most vulnerable time in his life, was at the root of his chronic stomach pains. At that time, in 1975, he was experiencing both a Saturn/Moon conjunction and a Uranus/Mars conjunction(in Scorpio).
He definitely lived in an alternate reality -- the "real" world was probably much too painful for such a sensitive soul. And one need look no further than his Uranus/Ascendant conjunction to find the revolutionary spirit that he was. And with Uranus in opposition to Mercury, Venus & Saturn, as well as conjunct Pluto -- well, there's some major rebellion! This is the chart of a very original, unique & independent individual who had to do it his way. His creative self-expression, as anguished as it was, resonated with a generation who could easily identify with his angst.
His progresssed Sun had made a conjunction with natal Venus (in his 7th house) when he met the love of his life, Courtney, in 1991. But in early '94, when they were having major relationship difficultiies, the Sun had progressed to his natal Saturn (reality check), also in the 7th house, and was in the last degree of Pisces (chaos & confusion). Perhaps if he'd been able to hold on another year, when his Sun would've progressed into Aries, he could have made a new start. However, the transiting cosmic influences were probably more overwhelming at the time than he could handle. Transiting Saturn was in Pisces and had just made a conjunction to his natal Sun (double whammy!) two months before his death. And on the day of his abrupt exit, the Moon was in Aquarius and both Mercury & Mars made exact oppositions to his natal Uranus; it was the final impulsive & outrageous act of his life -- and the ultimate escape. The following day, Neptune (his Sun sign ruler) trined Uranus -- Kurt Cobain had finally found a way to free himself from his physical & emotional demons...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #4 - on: 22.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Dan Barkye
 
Unexplained stomach illness - w/o being a med. astrologer, I'll try my hand and say this: an overactivated (trine from a powerful Mar) Sun (fire) in 6th Pis (health) with a very wide (to the limit) trine (this is a puzzle, I admit) to Mo (in a critical degree - 13) in Can (stomach) in a powerful house (emphasis); an oposition from Chi (and so, an UNHEALED wound) to the 1st h con of Ura, Plu, both retro, in Vir (health); an overspoiled Jup in Can, in the orb (actually, entering) of the 26 critical deg, retro; all this gives, at least, a second thought about health, in general and stomach in particular with a 'fire' (Sun) problem at hand. The permanency of this problem is, maybe, hinted at by Mar in a fixed sign, his rulership, Sco (traditionally), but in its detrimental house. A revolutionary and shy leader- from his point of observation, made of an explosive mix, the con of Ura, Plu, both retro, in 1st h, he couldn't but look at the so conservative world outside (the stellium in the 7th, enforced by the presence of Sat there), with an anarchist and rebel eye; there isn't and can not be any other explanation for this configuration; the shy leader is the Plu in the 1st, a problem with applying the forceful leadership provided by it, so we do not have a "shy leader" here, but a person who is uncomfortable with applying his power. This is not shyness, this is an inherent inability to do so. A very important point to be made, is that the opositions get a new lease, an easement, from the TALENS (a trine to one end of an oposition and a sext to the other, from one body) that Jup throws from one side and Nep, from the other, to the oposition of the 1st/7th houses. I hadn't read yet the other comments, eager to read them. This man is a puzzle because of the so many positive aspects which ease the (two) opositions there, Mar op NN and the one from the 1st h to the 7th.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #5 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marlene
 
In Jeffrey Wolf Green's book, Pluto: The Soul's Evolution through Relationships, he says for Mars in Scorpio that "The Soul's intention is to understand the nature of its emotional dynamics and the fears that emanate from those emotional dynamics, to understand the nature of its anger and rage, to understand the nature of power and the proper and improper use of such power, to understand the right use of will at an egocentric and soul level, to understand how the misuse of will is linked to manipulating others in order for the Mars in Scorpio person's desires to be met, to understand the nature of its personal limitations relative to what is and is not possible, the reasons and role of inner and outer confrontation, and to understand the nature of sexual energy and the right use of such energy" (p. 240). With Cobain's Mars placed in this sign, in the second house of values, we can expect this theme to be highly significant and was probably an intense urge that he wanted to actualize, but being situated in such a watery and subjective chart, may have been thwarted by his need to escape (Pisces stellium) the truths he uncovered.  
All of Wolf's suggestions seem to be quite descriptive of Cobain. Cobain's introspective journal (water element is emphasized) suggests that he definitely tried to "understand the nature of its emotional dynamics," or that he at least explored them. It appears that through his numerous confrontations with others he was using self/other dynamics of projection to learn about his own powerful will structure symbolized by his Mars in Scorpio. Although he frequently appears a victim (a Pisces theme), many of his confrontations were brought about by his own aggression and desire to test his will, even if that will manifested in a passive form (Pisces Sun trine Mars in Scorpio).  
With Mars in Scorpio trine Sun in Pisces he had a nice flow between his creativity and the desire to make his dreams (Pisces) manifest. The fact that he was able to derive an income form his efforts is well represented by his Pisces Sun/Mercury in the 6th house of work trining his ambitious Scorpio Mars in the second, which is a financial house.
Cobain has an intense chart, as most accomplished artists do. Also, we see through his example how a Grand Trine can be a very difficult aspect to handle, and that ease does not necessarily promote good fortune.  
Another interesting theme in Cobain's chart is that his generational Pluto in Virgo is personalized in his chart being conjunct the ascendant from the 12th house, opposing his Pisces stellium. Green says that Pluto in Virgo correlates to the archetype of sadomasochism where the individual feels a need to create crisis in order to work out complex feelings of guilt and atonement. In such cases, feelings of being victimized oscillate between extremes of victimizing others and experiencing one's own victimization through crises, which are meant to precipitate disillusionment and promote self-awareness regarding one's anger and feelings of victimization. The goal for such individuals is ultimately to learn to forgive, and to stop the repeated cycle of martyrdom. With Pluto conjunct the ascendant from the twelfth house, Cobain would have had an intense journey trying to accomplish such awareness because the twelfth house is the house that corresponds to the things we are least aware of. Conjunct his ascendant, this Pluto energy would be a strong factor in Cobain's personality, which others would easily recognize.  
With Pluto conjunct Uranus, which is in 1st house conjunct the ascendant, he would be intensely rebellious in some manner or another regarding themes of victimization. In fact, he became an icon representing this energy. The example of his wrestling match, in which he sought to humiliate his father by allowing other players to easily pin him down, is also suggestive of this theme, where Cobain is sadistically torturing his father by appearing as the "victim," which we know he is not because he is consciously directing his apparent "humiliation."  
With all the Pisces energy opposing his Virgo energy across the ascendant/descendant axis, we can expect that not only was Cobain's personality geared towards humiliation of some kind, but also that he attracted other to him that had similar desires to either humiliate or was the victim of humiliation, and that such confrontations actually served to eliminate (Pluto) these urges within him through self/other analysis.  
Additionally, Cobain has Venus conjunct Mercury/Chiron/Saturn in Pisces all opposite his Uranus in Virgo.
[continued in next posting]
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #6 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Marlene
The earlier stated theory of a potential conspiracy may be well worth investigating because he might have been a true victim of sudden rage (Uranus conjunct Ascendant/Pluto) resulting from a mysterious other's (Pisces) actions. Nontheless, this energy personalized points to an excessive struggle with depression (Venus conj Mercury/Chiron/Saturn) that may have alternated (opposite Uranus) with his desire to take control of his life and rebel against his true episodes of powerlessness (Pisces/Virgo axis).  
With his North Node in Taurus in the 8th house, he might have felt compelled towards a journey in which he would confront his obscure desires (ruled by Venus in Pisces) and how those desires participate in his interactions with others (Venus in Pisces stellium in the 7th house) in order to eliminate the factors that cause these interactions (8th house theme). With his South node ruler moving towards a conjunction to the South Node, he would have needed to primarily understand his own aggressive nature before he could approach an understanding of how it participated in his interpersonal dynamics, which brought about his feelings of misery and victimhood.  
Cobain's mega Grand Trine in water, involving Scorpio Neptune and Cancer Jupiter to his Pisces stellium, suggests that emotional dynamics flowed through him with ease and that his feelings had the potential to gain him access to higher consciousness and resolution. However, Neptune is a very difficult planetary energy to harness, and since it is the ruler of his Pisces stellium, and is also ruled by his Mars in Scorpio, I would assume that he alternated between brilliant insight and lofty vagueness regarding his emotional dynamics.
So, how does this chart play out regarding his fame? Well, he certainly was qualified to represent his generational theme of Pluto in Virgo and its involvement in victimization scenarios. At around age 20, when he began his ascent towards fame through his writings and music (MC in Gemini ruled by Mercury in Pisces in a 7th house Pisces stellium), Generation X widely accepted him and his message (Mercury/Pisces theme) because he spoke of themes they intimately understood. His aversion to fame probably resulted from the fact that he seemed more absorbed with understanding himself and penetrating the essence of his complexities through withdrawal and then crises, and that his fame was secondary to his primary desire of healing his wounds. I doubt he would have enjoyed his fortune and success without an accompanying self-knowledge of what kept producing his disillusionments (Pisces theme).  
His poor health and heroin addiction is well reflected in his Pisces/Virgo complex. The strange stomachache is an apt ailment that describes a 6th house ruler of Uranus in Virgo, which is a sign connected to stomach ailments. The intensity of his pain is well reflected in the fact that Uranus is conjunct his ascendant and Pluto in the 12th house, which is another house remotely connected to health. This theme also suggests that his pain would considerably impact his personality (ascendant). His dependence on heroin seems a likely escape, since we are looking at a highly Piscean personality who may have been discouraged by his inability to find a diagnosis for his illusive pain, and who subsequently chose withdrawal, since he thought a cure was not forthcoming. Alternately, his stomach disorder might have been psychosomatic and used as a justification for his addition. It would have been interesting to see if his ailment would have disappeared with greater self-awareness. In fact, he might have been successful with Eastern medical methods that combine medical remedies with a spiritual focus. Unfortunately, we will never know the truth regarding this matter, but these are considerations to note for those who are still around and who manifest similar symptoms
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #7 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza Hall
 
1. Revolutionary leader - Well, Uranus on the ascendent opposite Mercury, Chiron, Venus and Saturn certainly helps!!! Pluto there also helps, that makes for a more emotional, primordial, transformative kind of revolutionary. And then of course there's his Moon in the 10th, indicating a powerful rapport with the public. His public emotional display (Moon 10th) and emotional lyrics (Moon trine Mercury, both in water) resonated with millions.
So why was he uncomfortable with this? His Sun was in Pisces in the 6th!!! It's hard to imagine a less attention-seeking, ego-stroking position for the Sun. In many respects he was a very humble soul, and being worshipped by millions just felt WRONG. Also, there is something in his chart that looks to me like he may have had power and abused it in a past life: the Sun rules his twelfth house (past lives), and his South Node is trine the Sun in Scorpio, conjunct Mars. So perhaps the fame he had in this life felt uncomfortably familiar; perhaps he was subconsciously aware of how dangerous it could be to have that kind of power.
2. Stomach ailment... Well, just having the 6th-house ruler conjunct the ascendent can indicate some health issues, particularly when that ruler is a planet that doesn't coordinate very well with the physical body (e.g. Uranus or Neptune; if someone had 6th-ruler Mars conjunct the ascendent it might actually strengthen the health, but Uranus? The energy is just a little too electrical and wild for the body.) Uranus is in Virgo and that sign rules the "entrails," for lack of a better word.
But what I see mainly is a nervous system issue: it's as if there's a feedback loop, an overstimulated nervous system that doesn't vent away its energies when it should--because the chart shows a feedback loop between the ascendent and sixth house: ascendent ruler Mercury is in the 6th, 6th ruler Uranus is conjunct the ascendent, Mercury's ruler Neptune is in Scorpio and its ruler, Pluto, is right back there conjunct the ascendent and Uranus. If you follow the rulerships, you see an endless loop between the 1st and 6th houses.
In his diaries Cobain says that the pain was totally unpredictable (Uranus), but when it hit, the only things that ever dulled it were opiates: heroin, or a legal prescription drug (opiate based) that his doctor gave him. Opiates depress the central nervous system; they slow down the firing of nerves, if I understand what I've read about them correctly.
3. I haven't looked at the transits or progressions for the date of his death, but looking at his eighth house, it is ruled by Aries and Aries' ruler Mars is in Scorpio, conjunct the South Node, opposite the 8th-house North Node, and perfectly trine the Sun. Just based on that, one certainly couldn't rule out violent suicide! (I say "violent" in distinction to, say, suicide by drug overdose...)
By the way, I don't think I've ever seen a perfect trine before. Look at his: Sun 1 Pisces 48, Mars 1 Scorpio 48. Does anyone have any comments on this?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #8 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza Hall
 
One more consideration for his stomach pain: what about a mystery virus or bacteria, or what about pancreatitis?
For virus and bacteria... his sixth house is constellated by Aquarius and Pisces while the first is ruled by Virgo (hygiene, boundaries). I wonder if in addition to whatever nerve-related issues may have contributed to this, he may also have had a "mystery virus" or mystery bacterial infection (Pisces, Aquarius)? In his diaries he describes having a procedure done where the doctor puts a scope down the throat and looks at the interior of the stomach, and it was indeed seriously inflamed, though doctors could not figure out why. Nervous system troubles can create extreme problems with pain, such as excessive sensitivity and magnified sensations, but can they actually irritate the stomach so that it becomes visibly inflamed?  
And as for the pancreas... medical astrologer Eileen Nauman says that Pluto rules the solar plexus (stomach) chakra and writes, "Pluto's most important function... is rulership of the endocrine system... A strongly aspected (3 or more hard aspects such as a conjunction, square, inconjunct or opposition) Pluto or one near the Ascendant or Midheaven can indicate potential endocrine-related ailments. We then need to look for which gland is malfunctioning. For example, if Pluto is found... in Virgo, the PANCREAS and/or SPLEEN.... Plutonians do not have simple, straightforward, easy-to-fix accidents or illnesses. When they go down, they go down deeper, farther, longer, than any other planet insofar as recuperative time goes." Cobain, of course, had Pluto both near the ascendent AND strongly aspected (one conjunction and four oppositions, including oppositions to Saturn and Chiron).
I'll quote the Merck Manual on pancreatic disorders: "Almost everyone with acute pancreatitis suffers severe abdominal pain in the upper midabdomen, below the breastbone (sternum). The pain often penetrates to the back. Rarely, the pain is felt first in the lower abdomen. Usually starting suddenly and reaching its maximum intensity in minutes, the pain is steady and severe, has a penetrating quality, and persists for days." Chronic pancreatitis produces similar symptoms, but rather than just happening once, it is either constant or it happens in sudden attacks over a long period of time.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #9 - on: 23.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza Hall
 
To "Anon." who posted on 11/22 about Courtney Love:
The book you're using as a reference to support the theory that Courtney Love was responsible for Cobain's death is not reliable. This "he/she was mytsteriously murdered!" response every time a celebrity dies young is pretty normal, so although I don't think she had anything to do with it, let's not get into that.
But just to point out one obvious error in the book, you quote it as saying "In the summer of 1993, Kurt experienced what he called 'a miracle.' After years of consulting specialists about his debilitating stomach pain, he found a doctor who finally diagnosed the problem -- a pinched nerve relating to his scoliosis. Once the problem was diagnosed, it became treatable and Kurt finally rid himself of his daily agony."
Kurt himself said something completely different in an interview in July 1993 with Guitar World magazine: "GW: Did you find out what the stomach thing was? COBAIN: No. GW: Do you still get it? COBAIN: Every once in a while. But for some reason it's just gone away. I think it's a psychosomatic thing. My mom had it for a few years when she was in her early twenties, and eventually it went away. She was in the hospital all the time because of it."
http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9611.cobain.html
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #10 - on: 24.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
What makes this the chart of a revolutionary leader? i would suspect those born under the pluto/uranus conjunction, in particular those who have the conjunction directly aspecting their ascendant/mdiheaven axis, as likely to be a revolutionary force to be reckonned with in some way shape or form. that kurt's avenue was music/lyric composition doesn't seem too big a stretch with mercury directly aligning this conjunction and making a t-square to the midheaven- a pattern which generally produces/demands concrete results.  
Cobain was extremely uncomfortable with his leadership, fame, and fortune. Why?<< i see two different things that together would incline him this way. water signs are reticent by nature, and he has a noticeable concentration of water in his chart, in particular sun/moon and saturn. perhaps equal to this is that pluto/uranus conjunction on the asc/mid axis demanding freedom from the trappings that many everyday folks usually imagine as blessing-fame, fortune, and leadership.
regarding his stomach ailment and whether astrology gives any clues about the meaning of the ailment...i was saddened to read his bio, imagining what it would have been like to grow up with the experiences he lived through. being put on ritalin as a yound kid, topping it up with sedatives and then having your parents divorce at about age 9, deosn't sound like a recipe for wellness. while i'm as imaginative as the next one in finding some astro-excuse to answer some unexplainable ailment, frankly i don't believe you can see everything in a chart anyway-although that is not what many here will want to hear. perhaps it was connected to a pinched nerve as some other poster quoted. what some might find interesting is contemplating the pain a saturn in pisces might feel, and how it might be in some ways unexplainable, or undiagnoseable in keeping with the vague nature of pisces, and saturn for that matter. also moon in cancer doesna't strike me as someone who'd be all that confortable with the pluto/uranus persona, so i'd have to say that would at least in part explain some of the pain in the stomach he felt. {i said i wouldn't and i did anyway, lol!}
pt 3? hey i'm in a 2/3rds kind of mood, so i'm skipping the last 3rd! p.s.-have missed participating here at Astrodatabank. thanks folks for a wonderful site!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #11 - on: 24.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jack Terry
 
What is the most striking thing about this chart? Surely the Grand Trine in water. As some astute astrologer said, Grand Trines being 'closed circuits of self-sufficiency', Kurt Cobain lived in a world of his own very emotional responses. Astrological water, is by its nature, personal, because it is essentially uncommunicable. Even the 'universal' Pisces, means the need to tune in on a level which is beyond that of a more rational type.  
This chart should be used until time stands still (or people forget who Kurt Cobain was) to show that trines are not necessarily 'good'! A trine simply shows EASE of expression. Well Kurt certainly had no trouble expressing all his water.  
His unhappiness was caused by his being challenged to REALISE all this water through the Virgo planets on the horizon. Virgo wants things to take shape in some material form - 'in my head/heart' just will never be reward enough for these two hard task-masters on the Ascendant. At the end of the excellent film 'Drugstore Cowboy', Matt Dillon's character (a junkie) is asked why he keeps on taking all these pharmaceutical drugs, and he answers (something along the lines of) "I just need something to take away the f****** boredom of tying my shoelaces every day." Kurt Cobain might have said a similar thing about the necessity of growing into the Virgo mask that had been set for him. He was unhappy because he felt compelled to make real all his wonderful visions and dreams. Not only that, but the more famous he got, the more he felt the weight of COLLECTIVE responsibility (Uranus/Pluto) on his individual (ASC), human shoulders, taking him away from his own private watery happiness.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #12 - on: 25.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marlene
 
About Cobain's death transits, I can't help but notice that his is another famous death, at age 27, which occurred close to his first Saturn Return. He's in famous company; just think of Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin. All young and talented souls, who had severe addiction problems, probably resulting from depression or was the cause of it, who died at the critical Saturn return.  
Cobain transits were quite challenging on around the time of his death. In the sky was yet another grand water trine that sat on top of his. Transiting Mars conjunct Mercury at 23/24 Pisces sat on his 7th house stellium. At the stated time of death, the MC at 23 Cancer sat on his Jupiter, and transiting North Node conjunct Pluto sat on his Neptune at 26/27 Scorpio. So, his natal grand trine was highly activated. Suicidal thoughts, in such an already emotional, subjective and discouraged person would seem likely with such transits, especially since transiting Mars is moving towards a conjunction with his Saturn/Venus conjunction, and transiting Pluto is trining it. He may have felt that Mars was forcing action on his Saturn/Venus in Pisces (a configuration known to produce depression), and that transiting Pluto was forcing a confrontation and transformation regarding his Saturn/Venus. His Venus/Saturn conjunction, which opposes his natal Uranus, was being activated by two of the most aggressive planets. Additionally, transiting Mer/Mars in Pisces was opposite his natal Uranus/Asc in Virgo, and right on his Chiron. This is an abrupt, violent, aggressive and depressing set of transits, which prompted a likely scenario of a sudden urge for one big final withdrawal from all his pain.  
Again we see how trines can promote frightening forms of ease. Transiting Saturn moving away from his Sun meant that he was probably in a depressed state for quite awhile before the more forceful Mars and Pluto energized him to confront his depression. Also, transiting Saturn in his 6th house moving past a conjunction with his Sun points towards a health crisis. And the transiting Pluto conjunct his Neptune, which rules his Sun, is no big help, since it Neptune tends to obscure and Pluto would intensify the obscurity. I don't think that I could conceive of a more challenging set of transits, for someone who is already quite unstable and emotionally vulnerable to severe depression.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #13 - on: 27.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jonathon
 
Maybe Kurt was a cancer patient?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #14 - on: 27.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User lemnisc8
 
1. Kurt Cobain changed the tone of Rock music in the 90's. What makes this the chart of a revolutionary leader?  
He wasn't a leader, he was a gifted icon of disaffected youth. One of the poster children of his generation, outers are angular and powerfully configured with personal planets.
2. Cobain was extremely uncomfortable with his leadership, fame, and fortune. Why?  
No fire, no air with the signs of service and creative sensitivity highly focused. Without strong Leo or 5th house placements, the bright Moon in 10 suffered from the exposure.  
4. What cosmic influences were bearing down upon him at the time of his suicide - 4/05/1994, 7:00 PM PDT, Seattle? What message was the cosmos sending?  
Kurt's natal Moon is placed at an extreme declination (27*). It was returning(parallel) by secondary progression at the time of his death. This maximum North position is generally a favorable time in the pDeclination Moon cycle seen in the peak of his popularity and suggests a look a the relationship with the wife/females is in order. Despite his chronic emotional and physical instability, the physical evidence doesn't support a suicide.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #15 - on: 28.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Frances Clynes
 
Kurt Cobain The most striking thing I found about Kurt's chart in relation to his mysterious illness was the Mercury/Chiron conj. opp the Uranus/Pluto conj. Mercury the ruler of the 10th house and representing the mother is in detriment in the house of health. Its opposition to Uranus, signifying emotional distance from the mother, and Pluto, rejection and deeply buried fury (12th house). The conj to Chiron indicating a wound he cannot heal. The trine from Mercury to Neptune suggesting his belief that heroin could relieve the pain operates on both the physical and emotional level.
The fact that Mercury is his chart ruler as well as ruling the mother would suggest a strong identification with his mother, hence her apparent rejection cut deeply. His Moon in Cancer in 10th shows him turning to the public at large for love.
I would have expected Mars to be more involved in the Mercury configuration since the pain was burning and acidic. The abundance of trines is no surprise as it is squares and oppostions that push us to deal with our issues. I have found that people with traditionally "easy" charts have often fallen under them. Also fitting in this pattern is his dignified Moon and Mars and his exalted Venus and Jupiter, with Jupiter representing the sporty father.
A parallel can be drawn with the chart of the late Princess Margaret, who had several dignifed and exalted planets including a Sun on Regulus, but had, what is seen by the general public as a difficult emotional life with several personal traumas.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #16 - on: 28.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jane Griscti
 
1. The Grand Trine in Water and stellium in Pisces are indications of his creative ability. The stellium falls across his 6th and 7th houses indicating the ability would be applied in his work and with partners while the Moon in the 10th trine Mercury in the 6th indicates his efforts would be well received by the public; however, none of this points to strong leadership abilities.  
Pluto and Uranus conjunct the Asc opposition Mercury and square the MC indicate a rebellious and unique personality driven to suceed but again they are not indications of strong leadership ability.  
It's likely he used music as a means to express his uniqueness rather than as an avenue to fame; in fact the T-sqr implies that public recognition only aggravated his stress levels.
2. Zain, in Stellar Healing, states that gastric problems are often evident when the Moon or a planet in Cancer is afflicted. Cobain's Moon is critical in Cancer at 13 degrees and Jupiter in Cancer is square Mars,the planet of inflammation. A heavy progression or transit may have set off stomach problems.
3. At the time of his death, the prog. Sun was conjunct Saturn in Pisces with Mars prog inconjunct Saturn prog. The conjunction often brings on feelings of worthlessness and a sense that nothing can be accomplished; add to this Mars tendency to violence, it's placement in Scorpio, natural sign of the 8th house of death, Mars rulership of the 8th (Aries on the 8th) and Mars placement in the 2nd house of self-worth and it's not hard to imagine his emotional state at the time.  
At the same time, prog Venus (natural ruler of the 2nd) was critical at 29 deg Aries (self) in the 8th house of death. Progressed Neptune, in the third house of thoughts, was sesqui-square prog Moon and trine prog Jupiter. His thinking was excessive (Jupiter), unrealistic (Neptune) and agitated (sesqui-square).
At his death, transiting Mercury and Mars were conjunct and opposed Uranus prog (planet of sudden action) in the 1st house (physical body) while Pluto (planet of drastic action) in the third house of thoughts trined the prog Sun (life)/Saturn (loss) conjunction.  
With Scorpio on the third and Neptune in the third it's likely he thought about death often in his life; it is unfortunate that this time he decided to act.  
The value in understanding astrological energy is in recognizing that all things, eventually, must pass. Sadly, Kurt was unable to withstand the energies pouring through his life and gave way under their weight.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #17 - on: 07.12.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User steven
 
these people you mention died at their first progressed new moon, not the saturn return as you state.( this is when the progressed moon passes by the natal moon.)
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #18 - on: 07.12.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marlene
 
Thanks for the email and information Steven. I appreciate your insight, and it makes a lot of sense. But I should point out that I said the stars (Hendrix, Morrison and Joplin) died "close to their Saturn return" not specifically during their Saturn return. I believe that events build in momentum, and that we start to feel the vibes of a coming transit slightly before it occurs.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Kurt Cobain
« Reply #19 - on: 07.12.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marlene
 
Ok, I see the confusion; I said, "close to the first Saturn return" in the first sentence and then didn't repeat that in the second sentence. Sorry for the confusion. I want to clarify that the deaths were not at the Saturn return, but approaching it.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print

As one of the largest astrology portals WWW.ASTRO.COM offers a lot of free features on the subject. With high-quality horoscope interpretations by the world's leading astrologers Liz Greene, Robert Hand and other authors, many free horoscopes and extensive information on astrology for beginners and professionals, www.astro.com is the first address for astrology on the web.
Homepage - Free Horoscopes - Astrodienst Onlineshop - Astrology Knowledge - Ephemeris - Authors and Staff - My Astro - Direct Atlas query - Sitemap - FAQ - Forum - Contact Astrodienst