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Astro-Databank: Prince of Wales Charles (Read 1081 times)
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Astro-Databank: Prince of Wales Charles
« on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Prince of Wales Charles, born 14 November 1948 at 9:14 PM in London
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

Charles is a complicated person--sensitive yet soundly criticized, privileged yet driven to achieve his own place in the world, intensely private yet always in the public eye, playful and loyal, yet duty-bound. His love life is equally complicated. He seemed to love Camilla yet he married Diana. Let's examine his chart for a clue to these apparent contradictions and for what his future brings.
  • Using his chart, how would you describe the central themes in Charles' life and personality? How does he resolve the apparent contradictions between his public life and his true self? Where in the chart do you see the criticism that has been hurled at him since he was a child, by his parents, the public, the media?
  • From reading his chart, do you think that Charles will ever become King? If so, what kind of reign will he have?
  • Looking at both their charts, how would you describe their relationship? What's their attraction for each other? What will their future bring as a couple?
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #1 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sidney Simons
 
The closest Ptolomaeic aspect is the opposition of Jupiter to Uranus. These planets are in critical degrees. Each one of them is on its antiscion and they happen to be in counter parallel in declination as well. Mohan Koparkar in "Retrogrades"writes interesting things about the aspect 'retrograde Uranus opposite Jupiter".
The ruler of the 7th House conjunct the cusp of the 12th is indicative of 'relationships kept secret'. The opposition then, says that his partners do have their secrets too.  
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #2 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Alfred
 
In my view i think he is a kind and good man and love people.It depends,may be he will and may be not. If only they will understand each and love each other then i think they can make it to that level.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #3 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Judith Donohue
 
While many things can be said about their charts, the fact that (weakened) Jupiter was/is retrograde for their wedding, causes me to doubt that he will ever be king. His 29 deg natal Jupiter oppo natal Uranus--also 29 deg--seems to agree.
And health issues are definitely coming up for them.
Apr 9,'05: Yes, i agree the Royal Astrologers must have been out of their minds, or perhaps were overridden by Ms. Saturn conj Pluto! And for the marriage to begin after a death--hey, wait a minute--it's after Diana's death,too. Hmm-m-m...
And the recent eclipse is in the "deep, hidden passions" series!
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #4 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Tim
 
Using a 3 planet combination/harmonic orb set up, the major theme in Charle's chart is Sun conjunct Jupiter/Neptune 0 deg 25min which shows his philisophical nature, and being far removed from the "realities" of everyday life. Charles will become King, it is absolutely certain. It is his karmic destiny. His 0 deg taurus moon conjuncts his mother's sun, nodes are on mid heaven and IC, with a Leo rising and mercury sextile saturn showing a "specialist" in his field, where few people are able to obtain success. His 126th harmonic which is sun-mars-saturn is a major contributor to the life long criticism he endures from all sides as well as showing he will acheive greatness without obtaining the credit he truly will deserve. It will be awhile before he is King, and I think he will ascend the throne a widower twice over. His Mars in Sag denotes a ripe old age, yet his reign will be simply a "transition" (as was his great great grandfathers) from the modern Elizabethan age to the era of William IV. King Farouk of Egypt once said, "In the end there will be five royal houses left in the world: Hearts, Spades, Clubs, Diamonds, and Windsor"
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #5 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User dawn woodhouse
 
Charles and camilla have picked a real doozey of a day to marry..
Certainly the dual malefic aspects of Rahu and Saturn to the royal planets (Sun and Moon) suggest destruction to royalty. The marriage timing suggests it will have significant impact.
 If they wanted a quiet marriage that wont cause much of a stir, they really picked the wrong time. One way or another it will impact.
 And its worth mentioning that the effect of the eclipse will be to create unexpected outcomes, sometimes quite badly, the only saving grace is at least its not on a Saturday. Its taking place on a Friday, unfortunately Venus is of course afflicted by Rahu and Saturn as you noticed, so its not much of a reprieve.
Mars and Venus are mutually angular in transit. Natal mars to transit Venus, and transit Mars makes a partial aspect and is angular to natal Venus, (prince Charles Chart)suggesting sexuality is a key motivation. Mercury trinas positons, transit to charles natal chart is positive for communication, but the Mercury Saturn opposition and debiliated mercury isnt going to be helpful. whether thats more about how its recieved publically -- well thats likely ...
this was a post made on February 11 at this url http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SAMVA/message/8329  
and on the page for Queen Elizabeth in this forum on 23 February.
This was the Eclipse chart for Londons location (aspected to Charles chart where indicated)
As can be seen. The many upsets that have occurred, the various venue changes, day after day of the press revealing yet another upet, and the final blow being the Popes funeral on the same day pretty much validates the previous comment about the wedding impacting.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #6 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
NOTE: I used placidus houses to answer these questions.
1.) Using his chart, how would you describe the central themes in Charles' life and personality? How does he resolve the apparent contradictions between his public life and his true self? Where in the chart do you see the criticism that has been hurled at him since he was a child, by his parents, the public, the media?  
With a Leo Ascendant, Pluto in the first house, Moon in the tenth you see the man who will be king. The Sun in the fourth square Pluto show a reluctant king and it also shows some of the contradictions between his public and private life. The Leo ASC along with Pluto in the first and the Tenth house Moon is what the world sees; a man born to rule. The four planets in the fourth house that include his Sun/Mercury in Scorpio and the Venus/Neptune conjunction that also conjoins the IC show a private man who is very idealistic and passionate yet who's values are deeply entrenched in his past.
With Natal Uranus in the eleventh in exact degree opposition to Jupiter in the fifth (within three arc minutes of exactitude) you get someone philosophically divided within oneself. The opposition shows that this would also externalize as criticism and attacks based on philosophical/spiritual differences as well as choices out of sync with the mainstream.  
2.) From reading his chart, do you think that Charles will ever become King? If so, what kind of reign will he have?  
As previously mentioned his Taurus Moon is conjunct his Mothers Taurus Sun in his Tenth house. This suggests that surely he will become the King. Though there are indications that his reign may be tumultuous, his tenth house Moon is in a grand trine with both Jupiter and Saturn. This should make him a popular king perceived as strong and wise.  
Though he is seen as a playboy prince not to be taken too seriously, next year Saturn will transit his ASC and in three years he will be having his second Saturn return that coincides with Natal Jupiter conjunct Progressed Venus. Transiting Pluto will join in this triple conjunction while also in exact opposition to natal Uranus (29 degrees Sag/Gemini) I would look to his ascension to the throne to occur sometime between fall 2007 and spring 2008. Secondary Progressed Uranus will be in an exact conjunction with SA Moon and Uranus will be in a transiting Yod with natal Neptune/Pluto/Venus in January of 2008. This may mean that his elevation to the throne will be brought on by sudden events.
3.) Looking at both their charts, how would you describe their relationship? What's their attraction for each other? What will their future bring as a couple?  
Their Suns are in a one degree orb trine in water, and their ASC/DESC axis are within 31 arc minutes of exactitude of each other so there is a very good energetic resonance between the two charts. Also Camilla's twelfth house stellium resides in Charles 12th house of secrets, as well as his Sun/Jupiter/Mars and Chiron falling in her fifth house of romance. I imagine this relationship worked better as an illicit affair then as a real marriage. If she can handle his next mistress they should get along just fine.  
As I learned from Alan Oken in his book "Rulers of the Horoscope" Camilla's great grandmother was the longtime mistress of Charles great grandfather. Oh those royals are so predictable... (smile)
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #7 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User wayne penner
 
This chart is a hazard to the royal line, and so is the man.  
Charles once was quite popular, until he started opening his mouth (Moon opposion Mercury). He cannot get a break from the press, and never will.
In fact there is no way I can see that Charles will ever be consided "wise" by the public, who mostly have only a grudging acceptance of him as the future king.
I don't think he even wants to be king, with that forth House Sun square Pluto rising. I think he wants peace and quiet and would be quite happy to just disappear from public view with his old Camilla.  
In any event, even if he does become king, a 50-50 shot I say, he will either abdicate soon after or somehow get exiled ... something unimaginable at the moment. But the portents are there.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #8 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<<<<<< Wayne Penner wrote: In fact there is no way I can see that Charles will ever be consided "wise" by the public, who mostly have only a grudging acceptance of him as the future king.  
I don't think he even wants to be king, with that forth House Sun square Pluto rising. I think he wants peace and quiet and would be quite happy to just disappear from public view with his old Camilla. >>>>
Hey Wayne, I totally agree that he has no desire to be the king, but royals being what royals are, have a sense of duty and a loyalty to the crown. As I mentioned in my post; His Moon in the tenth is the exact same degree as Queen Elizabeth's Sun. He will do what the son of a Queen must do. That is why I called him a "reluctant King" and history and mythology are full of those.
Note that I said he would be "perceived as wise"; I didn't say he would be wise. Much like many perceive our president to be wise. (yes.... I rolled my eyes).  
When Saturn transits the Ascendant it can be a transforming event. I have seen a prepared person use this rare transit to help one to be seen as an authority and be put into a position of power in their immediate environment. As you know a king's immediate environment is their entire country.
Also the second Saturn Return is another such potentially transforming event. That these two events will happen in a window beginning this year makes me think there is a very good chance that this playful prince could be transformed into a true King. Only time will tell, but I always view transits of the outer planets (including Saturn) as evolutionary opportunities. We will see what the big eared prince does with his.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #9 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User wayne penner
 
Jotown I noted your term "reluctant king". I would say also reluctant public. I lived many years in England (now in the US) and should say the British public has no enthusiasm for this guy. He is a tired old man at 56 with no job and no seeming talent except to get himself misquoted, a big embarrassing dope really. Regarding the sense of duty, I suppose Moon trine Saturn would give that, and Saturn in 2. But Charles is a hell of a disappointment in every way, even to himself I would venture. There is no way he will be able to rescue his image as a foolish man. The Queen knows it, the whole family know it. Somehow this guy either doesn't become king or its a disaster and he leaves soon after under duress.
The upcoming Saturn Ascendent transit that both he and Camilla share will probably mean more isolation and heartache. My sense is the public has more or less had enough.
Interestingly, as I have been reading others' interpretations no one, not a single person who has looked at his chart, has any real enthusiasm for poor old Charles. If he were to die tomorrow there would be two days of mourning and eveyone would forget about him in the way you forget about and ache you had somewhere ...
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #10 - on: 11.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<<<<<< Wayne Penner wrote: Jotown I noted your term "reluctant king". I would say also reluctant public. I lived many years in England (now in the US) and should say the British public has no enthusiasm for this guy. He is a tired old man at 56 with no job and no seeming talent except to get himself misquoted, a big embarrassing dope really. >>>>
Well Wayne, I guess I don't see things as black and white as you do. Prince Charles is first and foremost a political public figure. Most of the world and at least half of America thinks that the current president is a "a big embarrassing dope really", and clearly his first 40 years or so did not show any inclination towards greatness, yet many think he is great, and many find him popular.
Now I am not bashing the Prez, just pointing out that every thing you have written about Charles could have just as easily been said about Dubyah' yet none of that prevented him from being put into a position of power. He had a Saturn/Saturn sextile the first time around, and Saturn going over his Sun and the beginning of his second Saturn return this time. Now these transits turned out very favorably for him.
In politics everything is perception and marketing. I watched the BBC all weekend and even the pundits are surprised at the warm reception the British public is giving the new royal couple. Again note that this is not a political statement, but an astrological one. Our current president shares many of Charles political characteristics and he was able to ride those Saturn transits to the most powerful position in the world. If Bush could turn the same liabilities you ascribe to Charles into political gold, I have no doubt that Charles could do so as well, and I don't believe that his chart says he can't.
As I said before; we shall see.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #11 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Zolita Rapp
 
The Sun in scorpio:still waters run deep.Personally I thought Diane was a bimbo and Charles had the intelligence and was also a talented watercolorist.It seems to his misfortune is that he was in line to be king or he could have married Camellia ages ago.Even now the idiotic press is criticizing Camellia for wearing jeans.I"d like to see the bodies of the critics.I think the public was mesmerized by Glamour and Glitz which Diane appeared to them to have.The public is currently unimpressed with depth of character.I think He seems a decent ,intelligent man who happens to have had monarchy obligations that interfered with his true heart.If he becomes king,he might surprise the hoi-polloi.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #12 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Chris
 
I agree that Charles seems to be a tired old man at only 56. There seems to have been pressure on the couple to marry to clean up Charles' image to give respectability to the liaison which has endured for so long. If Camilla is wife then who is the mistress?? Are any of her children Charles????? Can we see this in their charts???
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #13 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Luis
 
Prince Charles and Camilla is the perfect silly couple living a fairly tale of love and marriage for the amazement of the world.It runs in the family, his uncle Prince Edward abdicate his throne for a socialite woman,reason noboby quite understood. They both have similarities, Ascendants in Leo, Pluto in the first that intensified love (children on the side for Charles)as the reason for the relation.When Pluto tr in Sag brought Charles his divorce and bad publicity. Jupiter conj Mars.opo Uranus. In Charles Venus conj Neptune in Libra, in Camilla her sign's ruler, the moon in square aspect with Neptune in Libra made them dreamt of an ideal romantic marriage that exist only in their heads.Charles put Camilla in a pedestal and Camilla did the same with Carles, completely disconnected from reality and his role as member of the royal family in the UK,that is, to be a source unity and national spirit, not sexual scandals.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #14 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User wayne penner
 
Jotown wrote >>> Well Wayne, I guess I don't see things as black and white as you do. Prince Charles is first and foremost a political public figure. Most of the world and at least half of America thinks that the current president is a "a big embarrassing dope really", and clearly his first 40 years or so did not show any inclination towards greatness, yet many think he is great, and many find him popular.<<<
Jotown what has Bush got to do with Charles' chart? I mean I could use Clinton as a big embarrassing dope too ... please stay on the astrological issue.
In other words what are you talking about?
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #15 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marjorie Orr
 
Charles is a man of many contradictions who does immensely good (though largely underplayed by the media) charity work through his Princes Trust yet manages to live a hugely extravagant, indulgent lifestyle much like his grandmother, the recently deceased Queen Mother. He's known publicly as a whiner - presumably crabby Saturn in Virgo trine his Moon. His love of home and garden come from a strongly inhabited fourth house and his need to be hidden from the outside world. The 4th house is sometimes described as pulling people away from wordly ambition yet as I recollect Rupert Murdoch, the press baron; David Bowie the rock singer and Martin Luther, the protestant reformer, all have 4th house Suns. Charles chart does bear some similarities to Martin Luther's which might be worth looking at since he used to go into rants about establishment religious thinking which fits in with Charles's blasts against architectural and medical orthodoxy. Charles' 4th house Neptune hints at his struggle to forge his own identity away from his family. He's had to sacrifice a good deal being born as he has and OK the rewards are high as well. His relationship with his mother Queen Elizabeth is extraordinarily difficult. Mars square Saturn, Mars opposition Pluto in the composite. I doubt he idealised his father since he was much closer to Louis, Lord Mountbatten and certainly has always sought father substitutes. In many ways he'd find his father inaccessible (Neptune) as well as untrustworthy and perhaps, oddly enough, weak since was never able to persuade the establishment to give him a substantial public royal role - just the one who walks behind the monarch. And also controlling (Sun Pluto square) The public perception of Charles is warmer than you might imagine. The media is especially rancid here nowadays and misreads the public mood - look at the Jubilee which was a resounding success in spite of negative publicity. The ordinary public like Charle's stands against the establishment on alternative medicine and organic farming. Diana is the loose cannon in all of this since in my opinion she was a wrecker - deeply disturbed and vengeful. His relationship chart with Camilla is strange with that Saturn Venus conjunction and Saturn Pluto, as well as Sun opposition Mars and Sun square Uranus. I always thought they thrived on the secrecy and thrills of an illicit relationship and would find legal respectability tricky to handle. It will pull all those difficult aspects which used to be focussed on the outside world into their relationship.  
www.astroinform.com
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #16 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User cynthia novak
 
Dear Jotown and all
I'll admit that one of my passions as an astrologer is the apparant incongruities of a person's life and the chart.
Astrologers have said that W. would lose based upon SAturn transits and that Charles will not be king (although his mum is quite old).  
I see astrologers proclaim that Charles' marriage will never last because of the eclipse, yet I see clients who were married on apparantly bad days leading very happy and successful married lives....yes, for years. The late great astrologer Buz Myers reminded astrologers: For every king that lost his crown during an eclipse, there was another who ascended to the throne. For every person who lost ajob or whose marriage fell apart there was another who gained during that same eclipse.
Perhaps there is something beyond the apparant in the chart. It's a mystery to me. I certainly would not claim that Charles will not be king based upon his birth chart, afterall, he was born heir to the throne. How does that make sense. Likewise, is astrology really so powerful as to determine that the date of a marriage will seal the fate of that marriage?
I'll share my theory and y'all can dis agree but please consider it.  
The times of arranged marriages the bride and groom met at the wedding. THis truly was the birth of the relationship. Now, we meet, fall in love, make love and often cohabitate before marriage. Certainly Charles and Camilla had a long and public, if nefarious relationship. How can the date of the wedding be more influential than the date they fell in love?
Here's my theory The date and time that the proposal is accepted is more significant. The date of the first significant meeting is more relevant than the date that everyone got together for the party. When they are friends first and lovers later, the date that they realized that they were more is the signficant date.
Now, this does take some of the power out of the hands of the astrologer, but that's a good thing, at least in this astrologers mind
hoping for dialogue
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #17 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bobbie MacGregor
 
In reading the comments of others, I find it very interesting that both Charles' and Camilla's ASC conjunct. With two water sign people and a very obvious ASC connection, these two probably had lightbulbs go off in their brains when they first met. Often when this happens - and despite other marriage connections - the two will eventually separate from their marriages and connect - perhaps eventually marrying each other. And they can live happily because they both LIKE EACH OTHER and LIKE TO DO THE SAME THINGS DESPITE THE SECRETS they've carried for years.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #18 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User
 
With arranged marriages in India this does NOT always apply. People have usually met before the wedding,at the betrothal if nothing else, and in non royal environments everyone knows everyone anyway.
Also until recently a lot of royal weddings were preceded by proxy marriages. In this case signature of the marriage contract might be the thing to look at.
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re: Prince of Wales Charles
« Reply #19 - on: 12.04.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<<<<< Wayne Penner Wrote: Jotown what has Bush got to do with Charles' chart? I mean I could use Clinton as a big embarrassing dope too ... please stay on the astrological issue. >>>>
Hey Wayne, Please read both of my posts about Charles. I said, and I will say again; my comments are astrological, not political, other than we are examining a chart of a political personality.
I am talking about Saturn's transit through the chart of a leader. To call someone "a big embarrassing dope" is not very astrological"!!! I used your description of someone you said would never be popular or perceived as wise and showed you someone who had similar transit's and personal liabilities and managed to come out being perceived as both.
Again, we will see in the next three years how Charles handles the Lord of Karma dancing over his Ascendant and through his first house towards his second Saturn return.
I hope this ends your confusion.  
Also your comment about his Moon/Mercury opposition is very true and could be included in an answer to ADB question number 2.
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