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Astro-Databank: Martin Scorsese (Read 726 times)
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Astro-Databank: Martin Scorsese
« on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Martin Scorsese, born 17 November 1942 at 12:24 AM in Flushing NY
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

    The release of Martin Scorsese's "The Departed" has film critics talking about a nomination for an Academy Award and maybe his first Oscar for Best Director or Best Picture. It's reported to be his best picture in years. We thought that given the hype around the movie, the recent Scorpio stellium in the sky and a Scorpio stellium in Scorsese's own natal chart, his horoscope would provoke insightful discussion this week.
  • Scorsese's movies are populated with characters that are alienated, desperate, tortured, violent. What factors in the chart might show his attraction for the tougher side of life? What motivates him to use these themes and motifs in his work? Note that he has a grand water trine involving his Scorpio planets, Moon in Pisces and Jupiter in Cancer (albeit a slightly wide orb for the Moon-Jupiter trine). What does this grand trine add to your interpretation? What is added by the partile (exact) inconjunct from his Mars in Scorpio to a retrograde Saturn in Gemini?
  • What in his chart might indicate the superlative descriptions like "best director of his generation" "most innovative" and "most influential filmmaker" that are often used by critics to describe his work? What are the factors that might reveal his creativity, his ambition, his drive?  
  • Where in his chart do you see his fascination with the silver screen, his encyclopedic knowledge of film history and his interest in preserving film for future generations?  
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #1 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Zart
 
Now this is an odd case study for stellum like activity. Four planets in one sign yet housed in another. In fact most of his planets function like that. Not unusual for a late degree ASC but it certainly changes the temperature of the planets. Perhaps that is what makes him the Hollywierd outsider.  
This will be an interesting chart to consider...
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #2 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Seabreeze
 
Hmm, not too hard to figure out, even for a neophyte such as myself.
Leo rising, naturally theatrical. Scorp stellium in the third house of communication, natural for storytelling with a dark twist.
Moon in Pisces ruling filmography in the 7th, relationships to others with a poingnancy, pain and Jupiter in Cancer, learning, philosophy, religion that hits *home*.  
Trine in the water signs, depth of storytelling.
Saturn in Gemini, single focus in communicating, Uranus in Gemini, absolute genius in getting the story across, all on the midheaven...definitely a natural for one of the greatest filmographers ever born.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #3 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Vijai Vasudev Acharya
 
Vedic chart reveals that he has Leo ascendant with as many as 5 planets in the nakshatras of Jupiter.Lagna lord placed in the sign of Scorpio,which is why his characters are alienated,desperate,tortured and violent.These all things are associated with Scorpio.Lagna lord Sun placed in the nakshatra of Jupiter aspected by exalted Jupiter is the indicator of the superlative descriptions he receives from film critics.This is because both the royal planet Sun and Moon are placed in the nakshatras of exalted Jupiter which in turn is also placed in his own nakshatra itself.Lagna lord Sun is placed with Venus in the 4th house aspecting 10th the house of work.This confirms his fascination with the silver screen.As Saturn is also aspecting this combination from the 10th house from the nakshatra of Rohini indicates his encyclopedic knowledge of film history.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #4 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Terry Nazon, Astrologer
 
Martin Scorsese's films of desperate tortured and sometime violet characters is suggested in his chart with all the Scorpio planets leading to a fascination with he darker side of life and death. In Martin Scorsese's 2nd house of money Neptune the planet of creativity and creating illusions is in the sign of Libra suggesting that he has the ability to make his money from the arts in a Neptunian fashion, films. Saturn and Uranus in Gemini in the 10th house are suggestive of a person who may have started life with a shyness and an inability to speak, talk or even persuade others. Uranus suggests a fear alon with Saturn in Gemini I feel this is doubly accentuated. He had to develp and outlet for his own brand of intelligence and needed a new and different way to communicate his wisdom.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #5 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Zoe
 
I went to find a photo; it always helps me think about the person and the chart. The stellium in Scorpio certainly contributes to an insightful mind (Mercury/Mars can be penetrating). With Leo on the ascendent and the Venus/Sun conjunction he does have the capacity for "charm" and hence, potential "influence."  
The director's family background (Saturn/Uranus) in the 10th may have strongly influenced his views of the darker and more violent side of life. In the director's youth, a NYC boy, shy and perhaps isolated, he also may have experienced severe bullying. He grew up in the time of neighbourhood gangs and fierce competition.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #6 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User M
 
The violence and grit of the mob and organized crime is written all over the chart...
The midheaven is with Algol, violent to begin with...and its ruler, Venus is in its detriment in Scorpio combust the Sun on the nadir...He is from the mean streets and thats where his career and fascination lie...Scorpio and Algol have to do with crime, violence, sex and all the nastiness of life..hes into showing the underbelly of the city...Gangs of New york, Mean Streets, Goodfellas, the Departed...all of these are rough and gritty..thats where he is at home and what he wants to show..
Sun, ruling the chart with Cor Leonis rising shows the personality who loves the spotlight, the talkative and in your face director..esp with Sun in Scorpio and well, Venus in Scorpio despite weak gives him a bit of charm and where as other directors like Oliver Stone can be offputting with their violence and conspiracy yarns..he radiates sunny and smiling..
The stellium in Scorpio adds to the immerson with sex and violence, mostly violence as he doesnt show much nudity in his films..because to him its all about tale and intrigue..hes not into blowing audiences away with sex and nudity, rather the complexity of psychological sex that Scorpio is involved with and not mere gore for violence but violence to show mans animal instincts...
For such a gritty style hes actually comes off rather easy...thats the effect of Jupiter exalted in Cancer trining the Scorpio stellium, making him appear warm and emotional and he always says he loves his mother, putting her in all of his films as the quintissential italian mom who loves to cook and always telling the characters to be careful...
The chart is a funnel to the moon in pisces..the dreamer..the mystic..the emphasis of the chart is the wide eyed child who sick as a child found himself in the movies..(pisces and neptune rule the cinema)..the moon as chart funnel shows his core and his stress in the end hes a dreamer trying to tell his story..still the child with the asthma who dreamed of being the character in movies..
In this case i put the mother at nadir, with mars in rulership in Scorpio, he loved his mother and found her his home...his father was more the Venus in Taurus..although conjunct with the Sun, more his personality and his looks..
Saturn and Uranus in chatty gemini shows why hes multi divorced...Saturn ruling the 7th hates to sit still in Gemini and quincunx to Mars in rulership, shows why violence is his forte and restraint and slow story telling is secondary..his pictures are long but theyre always packed with in ur face violence, thats a function of Mars...
The elusive oscar and recognition is the midheaven ruler, rules honors, in detriment in Venus, combust and with no mutual reception or good aspects...hes gonna have to wait till perhaps he gets an honorary oscar..
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #7 - on: 09.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Mariposa
 
What an interesting chart! I haven't seen a nice grand trine in too many charts I've studied recently. Very timely as well - this year's Scorpio Sun cycle in Scorpio were very poignant and transformative for me as well (Aries Sun/Moon, Pluto in 1st natally).  
1. The Scorpio stellium in 3rd with Uranus in 10th in opposition - and the Saturn/Uranus midpoint barely crossing the IC would suggest someone who's making a career out of the "other side of life". The Sa/Ur midpoint could also suggest accident proneness or problems with authority. Not sure if he's accident prone or not.
2. I'm actually surprised to hear he has multiple divorces, a Scorpio Sun trine a Pisces Moon in 7th alone (even without the Grand Trine) would make me think he's very faithful and the worst he'd do as far as cheating would be thinking about it. But look what ELSE they're both trine to... Jupiter Rx in 11th! I have this Jupiter placement, also retrograde (though in a Leo stellium) and I have a strong tendency to confuse friendship with love. I would imagine each of his successive wives was first his friend, and that the previous wife was not thrilled by the friendship.
3. This one's a no brainer, the 3rd house stellium and its opposition to Uranus would indicate someone who is nearly compulsive with his creativity. I am sure he's very happy about what he does for a living, but I wonder how hard he's had to fight for that happiness. I think Uranus in 10th is one of the most fantastic placements a film director could possibly have - he's obviously a very astute businessman as well, and though the Uranus-Neptune trine is wide, it's going from the 2nd to the 10th house - money, money, money!
ADB moderators: You mention Scorcese's two children from "prior marriages" seemingly in passing. Was not their birth (particularly the first child's birth) extremely pivotal in Scorcese's personal development? Do you state it that way for that reason, or is the reason that you don't have birthdata? Just curious.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #8 - on: 10.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<b>1.) </b> " What factors in the chart might show his attraction for the tougher side of life? What motivates him to use these themes and motifs in his work? What does this grand trine add to your interpretation? What is added by the partile (exact) inconjunct from his Mars in Scorpio to a retrograde Saturn in Gemini?"
The Stellium of Sun in Scorpio conjunct third house ruler Venus in Scorpio along with 4th house ruler and third house co-ruler Mars in Scorpio combined with natural third house ruler (Mercury) also conjunct the Sun shows that his early life (3rd house) and his home life (4th house) were probably volatile.  
The Scorpio Sun is also in mutual reception with Pluto in Leo in the 12th house of the underworld. That his early life was shaped by these themes is one reason they dominate his work. That the ruler of his MC (Venus) and the natural ruler of his 2nd house are conjunct his Sun along with the natural ruler of the 6th house (Mercury) which is the natal ruler of his second house (also conjunct his Sun) shows that these themes are fused with his career (MC) work (6th house) as well as his money (2nd house)
The grand trine in water shows his sensitivity and again the themes of Death (Scorpio) martyrdom (Moon in Pisces) and yet some a ray of hope towards the future in his characters lives (Jupiter)
The exact quincunx from Mars to Saturn shows the violence and perhaps that it originates with anger towards or from the father.
<b>2.) </b> " What in his chart might indicate the superlative descriptions like "best director of his generation" "most innovative" and "most influential filmmaker" that are often used by critics to describe his work? What are the factors that might reveal his creativity, his ambition, his drive?"
Saturn conjunct Uranus and the Sun opposing Uranus (which is the most elevated planet) shows the innovation (Sun opposed Uranus) Saturn/Uranus in the tenth house reinforce the innovation and shows the influential career.
His ASC ruling Leo Sun is exactly conjoined Venus which shows the artist. His Sun and Mercury are conjunct and exactly straddle his IC which shows a potent mind that is focused (perhaps obsessed) with the violence of his childhood. Pluto in Leo in the 12th house disposits the Scorpio Stellium and shows how he is able to dramatize (Leo) his unconscious and hidden (12th house) issues.
Saturn/Uranus in the tenth show the ambition and the Sun/Pluto mutual reception reinforces this. Mars quincunx Saturn shows the drive and Mercury/Mars shows the passion (Mars) to communicate (Mercury) these themes of violence (Mars) and death (Scorpio)
<b>3.) </b> " Where in his chart do you see his fascination with the silver screen, his encyclopedic knowledge of film history and his interest in preserving film for future generations?"
Neptune trine Uranus shows the fascination with cinema. Neptune is disposited by the Moon in Pisces which is in mutual reception with Jupiter in Cancer. The Moon remembers the past and it disposits the planet that rules Movies (Neptune) The Moon is in trine and disposited by Jupiter which looks to the future and rules history and the preservation of history.
Uranus is in a T-Square with the Lunar nodes which shows perhaps the use of technology (Uranus) to preserve and restore the past (Moon + Nodes) for the future (Uranus)
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #9 - on: 10.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<b>1.) </b> " What factors in the chart might show his attraction for the tougher side of life? What motivates him to use these themes and motifs in his work? What does this grand trine add to your interpretation? What is added by the partile (exact) inconjunct from his Mars in Scorpio to a retrograde Saturn in Gemini?"
The Stellium of Sun in Scorpio conjunct third house ruler Venus in Scorpio along with 4th house ruler and third house co-ruler Mars in Scorpio combined with natural third house ruler (Mercury) also conjunct the Sun shows that his early life (3rd house) and his home life (4th house) were probably volatile.  
The Scorpio Sun is also in mutual reception with Pluto in Leo in the 12th house of the underworld. That his early life was shaped by these themes is one reason they dominate his work. That the ruler of his MC (Venus) and the natural ruler of his 2nd house are conjunct his Sun along with the natural ruler of the 6th house (Mercury) which is the natal ruler of his second house (also conjunct his Sun) shows that these themes are fused with his career (MC) work (6th house) as well as his money (2nd house)
The grand trine in water shows his sensitivity and again the themes of Death (Scorpio) martyrdom (Moon in Pisces) and yet some a ray of hope towards the future in his characters lives (Jupiter)
The exact quincunx from Mars to Saturn shows the violence and perhaps that it originates with anger towards or from the father.
<b>2.) </b> " What in his chart might indicate the superlative descriptions like "best director of his generation" "most innovative" and "most influential filmmaker" that are often used by critics to describe his work? What are the factors that might reveal his creativity, his ambition, his drive?"
Saturn conjunct Uranus and the Sun opposing Uranus (which is the most elevated planet) shows the innovation (Sun opposed Uranus) Saturn/Uranus in the tenth house reinforce the innovation and shows the influential career.
His ASC ruling Leo Sun is exactly conjoined Venus which shows the artist. His Sun and Mercury are conjunct and exactly straddle his IC which shows a potent mind that is focused (perhaps obsessed) with the violence of his childhood. Pluto in Leo in the 12th house disposits the Scorpio Stellium and shows how he is able to dramatize (Leo) his unconscious and hidden (12th house) issues.
Saturn/Uranus in the tenth show the ambition and the Sun/Pluto mutual reception reinforces this. Mars quincunx Saturn shows the drive and Mercury/Mars shows the passion (Mars) to communicate (Mercury) these themes of violence (Mars) and death (Scorpio)
<b>3.) </b> " Where in his chart do you see his fascination with the silver screen, his encyclopedic knowledge of film history and his interest in preserving film for future generations?"
Neptune trine Uranus shows the fascination with cinema. Neptune is disposited by the Moon in Pisces which is in mutual reception with Jupiter in Cancer. The Moon remembers the past and it disposits the planet that rules Movies (Neptune) The Moon is in trine and disposited by Jupiter which looks to the future and rules history and the preservation of history.
Uranus is in a T-Square with the Lunar nodes which shows perhaps the use of technology (Uranus) to preserve and restore the past (Moon + Nodes) for the future (Uranus)
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #10 - on: 10.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Lil
 
Huge stellium in Scorpio shows attraction to godfather types and themes of death and violence. Moon in Pisces shows attraction to flims and great imagination. Jupiter exalted in Cancer makes a grand trine to the stellium, so the talent of the grand trine is quadrupled. Great success from the five trines of Jupiter. Leo rising--films.
North node rising--brings urge for prominence.
Pluto in Leo squares Scorpio stellium--shows gangster films and interests, roughness. Sun in mutual reception with Pluto.
Saturn and Uranus in Gemini on MC--very clever and inventive in his career. Conjunctions show power, and he has the stellium, and this conjunction of Uranus and Saturn. Much original thinking in career.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #11 - on: 10.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User suzanne
 
I agree with the remark(s) mariposa made concerning Moon in Pisces in the 7th. My spouse of 26 years has Moon in Pisces in the 7th while I have Moon in Pisces in the 9th. While mine is part of a grand trine-nice anchor from Saturn in Scorpio in the 4th and Uranus/Jupiter in Cancer his is squared by Saturn[Gemini] with an opposition from Mercury/Venus in Virgo. And mariposa is right! Usually they might THINK about it but that's all..usually.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #12 - on: 10.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Kim
 
I read somewhere that Scorsese said that The Age of Innocence - his adaption of Edith Wharton's novel of 19th American high society - was the most violent film he ever made. I found that a fascinating insight into his psyche. Wondering what all of you might make of it astrologically speaking........
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #13 - on: 11.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User carol
 
What a great chart for a great film director! His Leo Ascendant is a natural showman and uses his natural leadership to direct the activity of all that emphasis/depth of emotion in the chart, which is what the best movies are all about.  
First of course, the grand trine is in water (emotion), with one of its members, the Sun, not only in emotional-depth Scorpio, but also conjunct the nadir, the deepest part of ourselves.  
And the second part of the trine, being Jupiter in Cancer, is expanding (Jupiter) that feeling (Cancer) all over the place, especially into the 12th house of imagination/ fantasy/film.  
Further, the third member of the trine quorum, Moon in Pisces, is an emotional ocean (Pisces) of response (Moon) right there in the 7th house of the public.  
And you just know that with all that other Scorpio energy (Mercury/Venus/Mars) accompanying the Sun in the third house, that all inclusive, no holds barred, dark shadow side of human existence is going to be communicated (3rd house) to the public (Mercury in very close trine to Moon in the 7th).  
And with Venus in Scorpio ruling and aspecting the Taurus MC, this artistic (Venus) depth (Scorpio) is not only a huge part of his career (MC), but it's likely to keep him comfortable and secure financially (Taurus). What a deal for Martin AND us!!
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #14 - on: 11.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User lucia
 
Martin Scorsese! Martian is a sorcerer! sun/moon/jupiter forming a beautiful air house over water grand trine. Talk about image making! But it's not all perfect sailing, in fact he's at times '3 sheets to the wind'......beverage, hangover, dictator, controlling power, leo/pluto square scorpio/mars....shows up and with 10/hs/gemini/saturn/uranus in concordance, this man's temper becomes his own worst enemy, (pisces/moon/7th/hs/trine/scorpio/3rd/4th/hs/cluster), has him hurting the people he loves the most, his formidable wit hits home....when his self/of/selves...(4th/hs/cusp/sun/venus/conq...conq/nadar), wants more than anything else to bring his family into a warm sphere of (self)protection. He loves fun, work and is not bothered by a sense of duty to anyone or anything because He's the invernerate, quintessential lover of life.
2 people, men,(I know) of similar chartings, close DOB to Martian were mom's favorates, extraodinary talanted...one was a drummer the other a lawyer. Both had beverage,deceit issues, and burned out early, rising fast, falling hard. but still loved by family.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #15 - on: 12.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Mitch
 
It appears that you have the wrong time zone - NY is in EST (+5:00) and you show EWT (+4:00) - because when I enter the birth data into my Solar Fire astrology programme, it shows a Virgo ascendant!! So what's the story??
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #16 - on: 12.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User lucia
 
so here we are with post election worries.Astrologicaly tomarrow, 11/13...with a virgo moon comming off opp to uranus/pisces spells bad news for the US market. uncertianty, un even trading and downage. (I'd post bush page but they don't get through). Also because of the VOC, (void of course) gemini/moon & scorpio/mercury just off stationary conq./jupiter..square..saturn/leo...don't expect a lot of change. More ingrowth, (parasitic)...investigations that lead to nowhere.  
Election 08 will bring Mccain to presidency by a wide margin. (virgo saturn passing over sun is absolute sympathy and mccain is sympathetic character).
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #17 - on: 13.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
Scorsese's movies are populated with characters that are alienated, desperate, tortured, violent. What factors in the chart might show his attraction for the tougher side of life? << i see this as a few things added together : scorpio stellium at the 4th house cusp with saturn/uranus in the solar 8th in conjunction with mars square pluto in the 12th. i think he uses these motifs in his work to resolve the inner conflict he was born into. that is an important motivating factor and is closely connected to the scorpio stellium that is unwilling to live life on the surface but needs to look within to gain greater understanding and wisdom.. this is also reflected in jupiter in cancer which is in the solar 9th.. he gains deep insight into his own early home life and is able to transcend what would otherwise be an unfriendly and challenging early enviroment.. he is capable of sharing this with others through the popular cultural medium of the movie screen..
the grand trine in the chart is in water and in the water houses... water goes to depths the other elements never get to. it can go to the depths and isn't resistant or afraid of it.. this is what gives water its ability to be compassionate and empathetic towards others who may have gotten their for whatever reason. it is also capable of great insight into motives of others. this would be helpful for anyone and would add a strong touch of humanity to this persons outlook on life. i would imagine the jupiter in cancer in the 12th as a real liberating dynamic to his outlook and offerings profesionally.. it would definitely offset the solar 8th saturn/uranus which by itself would have spun the chart in a different direction.
the mars/saturn inconjunct is more of the violence and hostility alrady suggested in the astro elements that are listed above.. it suggests a difficult relationship with his father probably who may have been somewhat rigid and inflexible to martins sensitive nature...this may also have contributed to more living on a fantasy level seeking solace in the movie theatre where he wasn't confronted by the harsh discipline he may have been exposed to with this combo.
superlative descriptions like "best director of his generation" "most innovative" and "most influential filmmaker" that are often used by critics to describe his work are coming out of a few spots collectively in his chart... uranus/saturn in the 10th would be the most obvious spot where this is reflected in the chart.. saturn in the 10th goes for the gold and with uranus in close proximity it is going to be of a more unorthodox and innovative type.. these 2 planets together encourage a broader application of the principles of both which i view as a good thing.. not tied down to conservative orthodox ideas and not overlly radical either.. north node in the first is going to be a trailblazer as well.
the astro indicators for his creativity? sun/venus conjunction and generally stellium in scorpio with leo rising are some... moon in pisces in the solar 5th to the scorpio stellium is another outlet to it.. his ambition and drive are suggested with saturn in the 10th and its connection to the mars in scorpio which is a relentless combo in terms of career ambitions and drive to the top..
 i believe his fascination with the silver screen comes largely from the pisces moon in 8th. the moon is the primarly planet in the western hemisphere and a focal planet as a result.. it is his way of connecting to the greater world he lives in and a symbol for the dreaamlike quality life may seem to be to someone such as he who has been immersed in escaping with his family to the movies from an early age.. this in connection to jupiter in cancer in the 12th forms a strong harmony that would have been unfavourable had it not had some harder aspects to the chart to force it into one of productivity and accomplishment.
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #18 - on: 14.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rob Gaydon
 
another chiron riser
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re: Martin Scorsese
« Reply #19 - on: 14.11.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
i thought some more about my comments on his relationship with his father based on my read of the chart. i don't know if it is correct.. the moon is in hard aspect to saturn.. it is wide, but i would still consider it effective in defining his relationship to his mom and women in general... then their is the other feminine planet venus in scorpio at the 4th house cusp.. either way the feminine planets seem problematic by sign or aspect. and of course venus is loosely opposite uranus a planet that could be considered the 7th house ruler.. it might explain the many marriages. i would be curious to know how he viewed his parents so as to throw these ideas out, or keep some of them.
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