Welcome as a guest in the Astrodienst forum. You can login to your Astro profile or register as a forum member.You can also remain in the guest status and navigate through this forum as a reader. 23.10.2014 at 12:41 [UT+1]
 
 Forum Rules Home Help Search  
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Astro-Databank: Muhammad Ali (Read 400 times)
Astro-Databank
Global Moderator
Astrodienst Staff
Adb editor
***




Posts: 204
Astro-Databank: Muhammad Ali
« on: 04.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Muhammad Ali, born 17 January 1942 at 6:35 PM in Louisville KY
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

  • First and foremost, Ali is a publicity hound. He and boxing would not be where they are today if it weren't for his tremendous ability to attract publicity through his jive talking. Who hasn't heard, "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." He would intimidate opponents before and during fights with rhyming taunts and repeating over and over his catch phrase "I'm the greatest." Where does the jive talking, publicity machine show up in his chart?  
  • Every hero is tested. Ali was renowned for his speed innovation and bravery in the ring. Like every great athlete, he made it look easy. His most difficult battles were fought outside the ring. His public image took a major hit twice in his life. For a guy who lives on adulation, it took a lot of courage to stick to his beliefs when so many people disapproved of his decision to convert to Islam and not enter the army. So let us look at the chart to see what was going on when he won his first heavyweight title on Feb 25, 1964 with 7-1 odds against him and then disappointing most of his fans by declaring his conversion to Islam and new name two days later. Is there a connection to the other publicity nightmare on April 28, 1967 when he refused the draft as a conscious objector?  
  • What makes this the chart of one of the greats? Do you think you could pick this chart out of a pile as one of the greatest men of bravery and known throughout the world for his courage, self-confidence, and charisma?  
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #1 - on: 04.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stephanie Clement
 
It is important to remember that Muhammad Ali takes his religion very seriously. How many of us have such closely held beliefs that we would go to jail for them? If you stopped and thought about this for even one moment, you realize what a sacrifice he made) If you didn't have to stop and think, you certainly are aware of the sacrifice.
In my most recent book, Charting Your Spiritual Path, I used Ali's chart as an example. Here are a few points:
1. The Grand Trine in Earth is a powerful reflection of his career as a fighter, and of his spiritual values. Anchored by Neptune in the 2nd House, we find that Ali not only saw deep into his own character, but he was also able to see past the façade of his opponents in the ring. Neptune in this configuration indicates the profound devotion Ali found in his life, and the practical level on which he engaged his religious beliefs.
2. Ali has said that love is the single most important thing in our world. He is loved by all of us because he proved his own devotion so clearly.
3. Ali believed that something worth doing is worth doing well, and he strove to be the best - and of course, he announced to the world that he was the best. Looking back to Neptune in the 2nd House, we find that there is no lack of self-esteem in this man. I feel that spiritual values ground his self-esteem.
4. Unlike other fighters who took their fists into the street, or ran with gangsters, Ali only fought in the boxing ring.
5. The 4th House indicates the deep well of personal belief and the inspiration of the inner voice. With Scorpio, a water sign, on the cusp and Pluto in the 12th, a water house, we can say that the chart is not devoid of water indicators. Ali felt the power of transformation when he joined the Nation of Islam, and he demonstrates the power of transformation to his fans still today.
6. Back to the original question, does this chart indicate a great man of courage and spirit, I suggest that we consider Pluto is in the midpoint of the Sun and Moon, with the Midheaven in the midpoint of Mars and Saturn. The Sun / Moon combination that indicates spirit and soul, the connection between the conscious and the unconscious, is blended with the sheer power of will and strength of Pluto. Ali was destined to face inner conflict and perhaps to be transfigured by it. Mars and Saturn indicate the potential for destructive energy in a chart, and the Midheaven at the midpoint suggests that Ali had to either "grok" the situation fully, or end very badly. He had the endurance born of spirit, not just of the body. Ebertin says of this midpoint combination: "the ability to bear the suffering of the soul with dignity and without complaint."
While we may not have identified this chart as that of a prizefighter, I like to think we can see the potential greatness in this pattern, especially if we look for the spiritual indications.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #2 - on: 04.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Cristinna Pinheiro
 
I really loved find this map and these questions about it, and I will study this chart and I will try the answers. I believe that exist one factor that make the difference between the peoples: it's the H factor, or the Humam Factor, the soul. escuse my english. I will send the results of my studies. Thank your attencion. Cristinna Pinheiro
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #3 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Irene A. Masiello, CHC, RHy
 
Happy New Year, all!
Stephanie, I loved what you said and congratulations on your book.
One of my earliest memories of Ali was his boasting he was "the greatest." We can certainly see the ascendant to support it!
I wonder if that very powerful T-square and all the internal conflict that goes with it was used by Ali in a constructive way through prize fighting. Energy can be used positively or negatively and perhaps Ali took that fixed energy and used it productively and professionally.
If I remember correctly (I am not a prize fighting fan) he was not knocked down very often.
We can certainly see his universal love with his Venus conjuncting the descendant in Aquarius. With Neptune transiting there now perhaps he can use his spirituality and answer the higher vibation of Neptune and INSPIRE peace in the Muslim community.
Please pray for peace! Thanks!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #4 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Gimelstar
 
I am struck by the similarity to mike Bloomberg's chart. Both have risen to success in very different fields. The out-of-sign opposition of the sun to pluto and square to Mars as the focal point gave him that grounded, powerful punch (of course in sports- a ninth house interest, but perhaps politics would have also been indicated). The predominance of planets in earth signs and the strong undercurrent of air is also remarkable. The trine to Jupiter from the Mercury-Moon conj make the ideal poet. Like Mike Bloomberg, the powerhouse of planets make him destined for fame. The location in angular houses is all-important. The grand trine in earth made it all seem so easy.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #5 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
Here are my comments on the Muhammad Ali chart...
1. Publicity machine...Sun/Leo energy loves to intimidate when in competition...I literally cannot take my eyes off of that truly stellar grand trine involving his Sun in the 6th House, the combination on the midheaven and Neptune on the brink of Libra. He is truly a glamourous king who loves the attention he gets through his creativity, radiance and stamina. I also note that his Sun is near the power point of Aquarius, and his Mercury and Moon are 'in' that sign. This means catchy catch-phrases and a knack for the unexpected, which was one of his most powerful tools during his eventful career as an entertainer (that's what it's all about isn't it?? Keeping the crowd interested.) 2. Without yet looking I would like to point out that strong Aquarius energy can be very unreasonable when it comes to making important decisions where 'everybody else' goes one particular way. One factor in some of his decisions appears to be that he wants to assert his independence and uniqueness. Aquarius likes going off the beaten path even when popularity is at stake, often because Aquarius knows intuitively that that adulation will be easily regained, as long as things stay on a non-personal level. Also there is the thrill of being unpredictable. I know a man who has a strong Aquarius Venus. Married a number of times, he was notorious for taking off on trips with other women (to all of whom he promised matrimony), and ending the marriage with divorce. He totally alienated his girlfriends (I could not count them on fingers and toes) when he suddenly got married again. In another country. Anyway on that date in 1964, the Moon was running over Ali's Pluto, Chiron and first house in Leo, and Mercury and Saturn were conjunct at the 'end' of Aquarius, running over his 'beautiful' Venus (no doubt part of his 'pretty boy' image). I notice that also Sun and Mars were conjunct that month in Pisces, and opposite Pluto and Uranus in Virgo. Uranus and Pluto are pretty powerful influences when it comes to conversions to other faiths, and I notice also Ali's strong Jupiter in Gemini, in trine to his Aquarius influences, so he is always open to looking at other faiths. Jupiter near the 11th(plus the strong natal and transiting Uranus/Aquarius influences) shows that perhaps a friend inspired him to choose Islam. I find it rather curious that Mars in this chart is not very well-supported. In fact there are natal squares to it. But a closer look reveals that the Taurus location of Mars allows his anger to build up, and he can easily control when to release it. The squares show that he sometimes struggles with this tendency. He could be all talk and no action, when outside of the ring, because a Taurus Mars does not like to be aggressive unless it is to a professional end (believe me, I have my Mars conjunct his, in Taurus). I can tell he sweats a lot, can be very hotheaded and angry, but actually very gentle. But can be very focussed and very destructive in the ring. And on that 1964 date, Sun and Mars, in Pisces, were sextile to his natal Mars. He could easily bring past hates and hurts into play. And they could also have played a part in his conversion (he DID change his birth name, the person that he once was). On 28 April, 1967, Sun was in Taurus and conjunct his Mars, so he was especially stalwart (and loving the attention it got him). Mercury and Mars were opposite each other in Aries-Libra, on his 3rd-9th House cusps, casting some major aspects to his 1st-7th House combinations, so he was making some rather assertive statments involving his beliefs and ethics. All of the outer planets (except Saturn) were tied into a pattern with his 10th House Taurus influences...Jupiter in sextile from Cancer, Uranus and Pluto in trine from Virgo (and nearing conjunct his Neptune), and Neptune opposite from Scorpio. The remaining giant, Saturn, was in Aries and trine his Pluto. He was obstinate to an unreasonable degree, and would defend his choices to the death. And I would say that the common elements are the connections to the influences near the top of his chart. 3. Fame is often confused with greatness. There are many greats who are not famous, and Ali just happens to be both. He has Leo powerful with the Sun in the 6th and in a grand trine. The 6th suggests field of expertise or professional effort. The fact that it is near the Aquarius point shows that his professional life in front of the public was inevitable. He is a consummate showman in every way. The grand trine guarantees success, but can give him a big head and one of those ' the bigger they are' scenarios. Some of his courage and confidence could have had its source in high public opinion and popularity. The man is indeed like-able.
[continued in next posting]
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #6 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Bill Lindsay
We could also attribute his courage to the bull-headed Mars at the top, but it may have been at a cost, namely the rather subtle damage done to his brain during his career.
I thoroughly enjoyed the analysis of his chart. Thanks
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #7 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User raj
 
At first I didn't want to say anything, for he's always been a sweet religious directed gentleman.
And then you can see his career, why and the actions just from the natal chart without going into the transits over the years.
The young mans Capricorns drive to satisfy his trainers, elders and teachers. The Mercury in Aquarius conjunction with the Moon, all the while with Aquarius attributes being influenced with the rulers of Aquarius, Uranus and Saturn in conjunction in Taurus, for they also rule Capricorn, with the Mercury Moon conjunction squared to the Saturn Uranus conjunction. This combo would make him quick with his hands and mind, also bringing many difficulties in his life, along with violent outbursts.
Four Air planets, five Earth planets, and Pluto in fire. A bright down to earth fellow that has had enough conflicts in his life.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #8 - on: 05.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Neil Sills
 
This is certainly one of my favourite charts in the world, and I have been using it for over 25 years in my teaching. I will be succinct, as this chart shows a number of quite unique features, as well as some very obvious ones.
I guess the obvious is the Leo Ascendant. "I am the Greatest". Of course, not everyone with Leo Asc says this...though they may feel it! However, it becomes more pertinent, when we see that the almuten of the Asc is actually Jupiter in the 10th. Now this certainly gives a strong sense of being the champion of the world.
Now another very pertinent aspect of Muhammed Ali's chart is all planets are retrograde, with the exception of Mercury and Mars. Retrograde planets often act out through the direct planets of a horoscope, and here we have a total classic... Everything acting out through Mercury and Mars - Mouth and Fists!
Next, his chosen profession. This is elegant astrology. The ruler of the MC is in the 7th. To me this would indicate some sort of 7th house issues involved in career. Now the rulers of the 7th (Saturn and Uranus) are conjunct and posited in the 10th. This emphasises that he would have a 7th house type of career. Furthermore, the square between these significators indicates a struggle of some sort, and as they are also in mutual reception by dignity, a very powerful sort of struggle. Well, what sort of 7th house career did Muhammed Ali have? Of course it is boxing...where the whole object of the game is to fight (square) an open enemy (7th).
As I said I have been using this chart for teaching for about 25 years and I could go on and on, but I won't. I just thought these ovservations may be of interest.
On a personal level, I met Muhammed Ali in New Zealand in the mid seventies. It was a small meeting (only about two or three of us) and he was a warm, gentle personable man, with the biggest hands and gentlest handshake. He was witty and not at all bombastic or arrogant. He loved being the centre of attention, but made sure everyone was included in our conversation - which was personal, not business. He is just a lovely man!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #9 - on: 06.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anthony Louis
 
1. Where does the jive talking, publicity machine show up in his chart? Leo rising: a natural showman. Saturn elevated in the 10th: tremendous ambition and a need to maintain his reputation. Jupiter in Gemini (overabundance of communication) trine the Moon/Mercury conjunction in Aquarius: ease at verbal communication and an ability to connect with the public. 2. So let us look at the chart to see what was going on when he won his first heavyweight title on Feb 25, 1964 with 7-1 odds against him and then disappointing most of his fans by declaring his conversion to Islam and new name two days later. On Feb. 25, 1964, transiting Saturn was conjunct transiting Mercury in the 7th and both were square his natal Saturn/Uranus conjunction in the 10th. Ali was at a pivotal point in his Saturn cycle (the first square), which is often a time of testing in one's career. The square from Mercury probably reflects the "bad news" to his fans (7th house). At the same time he had transiting Jupiter in Aries in the 9th (sports) sextile his natal Venus, ruler of his MC: an athletic victory. Transiting Jupiter was also exactly trine his natal ASC at the time he won the fight. His secondary progress Sun in Feb. 64 was on the natal Descendant, conjunct natal Venus (MC ruler) and square natal Saturn. His progressed MC was exactly sextile his natal Pluto in Leo in the 12th: both a singular career achievement and an attraction to deep involvement in spiritual matters (12th house). In Feb 64 his Solar Arc directed Ascendant was exactly trine his natal MC, another sign of a major career success. Is there a connection to the other publicity nightmare on April 28, 1967 when he refused the draft as a conscientious objector? In April 67, transiting Neptune (spirituality) was opposing his natal Saturn/Uranus conjunction in the 10th: his religious beliefs were in conflict with 10th house authority. At the same time Jupiter transiting his 12th house was opposite his natal Sun: another conflict between philosophy/religion and secular authority. 3. What makes this the chart of one of the greats? Some outstanding factors in the chart include: Saturn and Venus conjunct angles and in square and mutual reception with each other. Grand trine of Sun, Saturn/Uranus, and Neptune, all in Earth. Do you think you could pick this chart out of a pile as one of the greatest men of bravery, known throughout the world for his courage, self-confidence, and charisma? Given the Leo rising, the grand trine, the prominent Saturn in the 10th, the square of Mars and Pluto, I would probably pick this chart out for courage, self-confidence, and charisma. However, it's always easy with hindsight.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #10 - on: 06.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Ali was an extremely quick, strong and resilient boxer(MC= Mars-Saturn midpoint and Saturn= Mars-Jupiter midpoint), but not in the unique skill class he liked to claim(Leo-rising). The Mars(in Taurus detriment) T-square with ruling Sun-Pluto gave him plenty of courage and charisma, but his successful career rests more on his publicity hound´s gift of gab(Jupiter trine Mercury and semi-sextile MC). Ali was a very boastful(Jupiter) jive-talking(in Gemini) young man. While other black fighters scared the public with their ugliness(Saturn), he was handsome and lucky(Jupiter). His losses eventually diminished this hubris, however. He himself admitted he had underestimated Joe Frazier and not trained properly for Norton, who broke his jaw. The battering he took in the three bouts with Frazier contributed to his Parkinson´s disease.
 On Feb. 25, 1964, mob-controlled Sonny Liston took a dive to favor insider betting. TrPluto163* opposed TrMars-Sun-Chiron and Ali´s natal South Node in Pisces. Ali´s conversion to Islam later provided the basis for his conscientious objection to Viet Nam. His historic(Saturn) 27Feb1964 name change(Mercury325*= US MC= tenth house of government authority) does appear to relate to his 28Apr1967 refusal to be drafted, since the FBI was singling him out as a target among pro athletes. TrUranus170*40' quincunx natal Venus also reflected the strange(Aquarius) milieu of his boxing career(MC ruler Venus320*40'), which failed to give Ali the draft deferrals and National Guard posts routinely provided for football, baseball, and basketball players. Venus-Uranus quincunxes make "others feel you have an obligation to indulge their needs and to try and make you a dumping ground for tasks they themselves have rejected. It is advisable in such situations to be particularly cautious if you are asked to give of yourself in a physical way"(quoted from Robert Hand´s "Planets in Aspect").
 While I remain 100% open to all astrological techniques, it seems to me that Uranian astrologers could relate their methodology more concretely to real life events, rather than merely correlate positions. Along with other 30* multiples, semi-sextiles(30*) and quincunxes(150*) consistently play major roles in modern chart interpretation. From what I have seen here on AstroDatabank, even the quindecile family of 15* multiples seems to provide more substantive meaning than the 22.5* and 11.25* angles.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #11 - on: 07.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Lea Breuer
 
the Uranian perspective:  
>>1. Where does the jive talking, publicity machine show up in his chart?<<  
 This is what lies on Ali's world Axis, In the 1st harmonic, (interpretations are from Witte's RPP): Vp (The native in the public eye) = Neptune = Moon/Kronos (Great people)=Mercury/Kronos (Uprightness, upon good faith, A noble way of thinking, The great spiritual leader) = Mc/Venus (I am able to send much love to the public and the world. I am popular)  
The <Neptune=Mercury/Kronos> is the Uranian formula for <Rhetoric gift. Extemporaneous poet. The "gift to Gab">, and since it is so very tightly aligned with the World axis (Aries Point) in this chart, this gift was used for publicity.  
Before he became Ali, in 1962 he was already known by various nicknames in the press (Gaseous Cassius, the Louisville Lip, Cash the Brash, Mighty Mouth, Claptrap Clay, etc.)  
In the 4th Harmonic, we find a bigger midpoint tree on the world axis, while allowing a smaller orb: Vp = Mc/Asc (I am connected to the public in a professional way, through my vocation, motivation and resource) = Mc/Kronos (I am superior to other people. I am an autority to others. In other words "I am the Greatest !!!") = Moon/Kronos (official rank) = Cupido/Admetos (Avoided by others. In solitude. Shun)= Node/Admetos (Connected with oppressed people. Without freedom)= Mars/Uranus (A rebel. A provoker. "Sting like a bee". Energetic act. Cause general excitement. Indignant about something. suffer bloody injuries)= Neptune = Apollon/admetos = Mercury/Kronos = Mc/Zeus (I am a machine. I have the urge to accomplish great feats) = Moon/Zeus (Inflammable)= Jupiter/Hades = Uranus/Pluto (Public acts of violence. Attaining great obgectives by immence application of effort. A person very much out of the ordinary or who is endowed with universal genius. Restlessness, activity, creative energy, A fight for the establishment of innovations and reforms, A strong awareness of purpose or of objective, mobility, creative power, untiring effort, endurance. The mania of destruction, daring and foolhardiness- COSI) = Mercury/Zeus (energetic and creative communications and mobility)= As/Moon (To be known by many people. To appear in public)  
Note the combination <Vp = Neptune = Uranus/Pluto> for which COSI lists: "Sympathetic understanding of human nature. Deep study of subject of special interest. The inclination to delve into the Supernatural realm. Unfulfilled wishes, fatigue, nervous diseases."  
Speaking of "nervous diseases", in 1984 it was confirmed that Ali was suffering from a series of symptoms variously known as "punch drunk" syndrome, or chronic encephalopathy of boxers; it is characterized by parkinsonian symptoms--slurred speech, facial immobility, poor balance, and difficulty in walking.  
As a side note, it is quite inetersting that Jim Carrey and Marty Kaufman, both comedians and actors, also born on January the 17th, had/have this "gift to gab". Kaufman also staged professional wrestling bout as part of his show.  
>>2. What was going on when he won his first heavyweight title on Feb 25, 1964 with 7-1 odds against him and then disappointing most of his fans by declaring his conversion to Islam and new name two days later. <<  
25-27 Feb 1964: 1. Sec Progressed or Solar arc Sun hit the natal Desc, making him superior (Sun) in the fight, or to his "open enemy" (7th house cusp), and thereby activating all the midpoints and sensitive points that are equal natal Sun and Asc: In the 16th Harmonic: D Sun = D Mc/Pluto = D Mercury/Neptune = N Asc Let us quote from COSI, for some of the above combinations: Sun=Mc/Pluto "The desire to obtain power and authority. The ability to stand on one's own feet, the power of one's own personality in the attainment of success in life." Asc = Mc/Pluto "The procurement of an important position and of recognition under any condition. - A person of Fame"  
At the same time, transit Sun hit his Sec Prog. Desc, repeating the same configuration.  
27-Feb, The T Venus/Jupiter conjunction made a tight sextile to his Prog Sun (and a trine to his natal Asc -from his 9th ). T Moon/Pluto conjunction made a square to is natal Jupiter in the 10th (religious regeneration, Fortunate change or transformation), and trined his natal Mc. 2. Sec Prog Mars (ruler of is 9th) hit the Aries Point (15 Taurus), activating his World Axis. This was triggered by transit Moon at 15Leo.  
Vp = P2 Mars = Mc/Kronos (The superior boxer)= Mc/Asc (Professionally) = Moon/Kronos (officially ranked )  
3.
[continued in next posting]
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #12 - on: 07.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Lea Breuer
Sec Prog Moon opposed natal Uranus (co-ruler of 7th) in the 10th (Emotional tension, Sudden manifestation of sub conscious forces.), both tightly squared by T Saturn/Mercury conjunction (Sudden cognition and perceptions, sudden news. Striving for independence.)  
To quote COSI on the possible manifetations of this Moon/Uranus aspect : "Sacrifices for the the attainment of special aims, help and assistance through friends, the attainment of sudden successes, the accomplishment of a change in one's circumstances. An unconditional pursuit of one's own convictions, interest in the metaphysical realms..." But also: "Causing excitement and irritating the public. An excessive self-willedness, stubborness, fanaticism, the tendency to exaggerate or magnify things, the inclination to overstrain the nerves, The striving for absolute independence. the craving for sensation.."  
4. On Feb 25-27 1964 Ali had his 22:30 solar arc return. That is, all his solar arc directed planets and personal points made an exact 22:30 degree aspect to their natal positions. This "return", triggered by transits, activated the "promises of the natal chart", so to speak.  
On the 22:30 deg dial (aka 16th Harmonic) this would show as: T Pluto = T Admetos = T Kronos = T Poseidon ("deep rooted changes and radical transformations, in one's appointed boss or superior, in religion, in the spiritual and mental attitude and in concept of the world...)= D Venus = N Venus (preferences)= D+N (JU/CU (Happy community)= AS/CU (Home)= JU/PO (Wisdom and conscience)= AS/PO (Preferring people who are religiously inclined)= JU/SA (successful separation)= AS/SA (Be given the cold shoulder; experiencing refusals from others/fans)= SU/CU (A member of a community)= NO/JU (Pleasant connections)= UR/NE (Crisis)= AS/NO (Establishing connections)= SU/PO (The religious man) = SU/SA (The serious man)= Vp/UR (Rebelling against the public)= HA/AD (Coldness, Aversion, Longing for the past, Hindered in one's desire for love)= NO/SU (in public connections)  
T Vulcanus (Energy, might, force, power) was smack on the world Axis, acrivating the natal "public image" N+D [NE = UR = MA/PL = ME/KR = MA/UR = HA/ZE = UR/VU = AP/AD ]  
25-Feb: T Mars = T Jupiter = N MC = D MC (successful results in one's profession, vocation or occupation)= D+N (VE/VU = KR/AD = JU/PL = AS/PL = MA/CU = MA/PO = SU/PL = VE/UR = MC/MO = MA/SA = CU/VU = NO/MA = VU/PO = MO = ME/HA)  
27-Feb: T Mars = D Mercury = N Mercury (Realization of thoughts and plans. Criticism) = NO/PL = MC/NE = JU/AD = AS/AD = PL/AP = VP/MC = MO/NE = SU/AD = VP/MO  
T Venus = T Jupiter = D Moon = N Moon  
* T = Transit ; N = Natal ; D = Solar Arc Directed.  
>>2. . Is there a connection to the other publicity nightmare on April 28, 1967 when he refused the draft as a conscientious objector? <<  
Inspecting tertiary Progressions (P3) and transits (T) one finds these very tight aspects on April 28 1967 : 1. T Pluto Opp P3 Mc and T Venus square P3 Mc. 2. T Saturn is square P3 Asc, from P3 10th of authority.  
And on Feb-27-1964: 1. P3 Pluto exactly opp P3 Mc. 2. T Saturn exactly square P3 Asc from P3 10th (P3 Asc is on Natal Uranus in the 10th). 3. P3 Saturn is smack on N Jupiter in the 10th. 4. T Jupiter/Venus conjunction is exactly Opposite P3 Mars in P3 6th. 5. T Sun/NorthNode conjunction square P3 Pluto  
So, there is this similarity in aspects, between the two dates, with Pluto Opp Mc and Saturn square Asc. Saturn/Pluto involved (in Hard aspects) with the chart angles can describe one's "being placed in cumbersome and difficult circumstances" yet "enduring and fanatically adhering to one's principles once they have been adopted" (COSI)  
>>3. What makes this the chart of one of the greats?<< Aries Point = Neptune = Mc/Kronos = Moon/Kronos; and the complete picture made up of all the many details.  
>> Do you think you could pick this chart out of a pile as one of the greatest men of bravery, known throughout the world for his courage, self-confidence, and charisma?<<  
Not at first sight or without lengthy inspection
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #13 - on: 07.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Michael Ikeda
 
Many things, First a grand trine of Sun, Uranus and Neptune. Sun/Uranus providing fame and Sun/Neptune giving him great endurance that he showed by going 15 rounds many times and by such a long career. Nolan ryan also has a Sun trine Neptune and look at his endurance and longevity. Also his Mercury trine Jupiter giving him a razor sharp mind full of wit and humor. Saturn at the MC as well as Jupiter and Uranus in the 10th house shows a very successful career that was built on hard work (Saturn) and gave him luck (Jupiter) and fame (Uranus). Oh yes, Venus on the descendant to make him very attractive to the opposite sex. He was married 3 or 4 times. That's about it!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #14 - on: 13.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Irene A. Masiello
 
Hello all!
Neil, I read your comments with great interest. My brother was a limo driver here in NY years ago and he had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Ali when he was my brother's passenger.
True to the nature of magnanimous Leo, Mr. Ali gave my brother a $100 bill as a tip for a ride from the airport.
Certainly, transiting Neptune on Mr. Ali's Venus will bring about the highest quality of Neptune energy and find him pouring the milk of human kindness (Aquarius' symbol) into humanity at this difficult time in our evolution.
Isn't it wonderful to see energy being used on its highest frequency?
Please pray for peace. Blessings!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #15 - on: 13.01.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Carole Hemingway
 
Ali's chart is what astrologer's dream about when it comes to living up to its potential. His jive talking, publicity machine shows up in his Mercury 13-degrees Aquarius conjunct his Moon in 12-degrees Aquarius and both trine to his Jupiter in 11-degrees Gemini. Up until his illness he knew how to work a crowd! With that "grand trine" in Earth how could he not eventually be loved by all, in spite of his big mouth. His Sun-Saturn trine gave self-discipline a whole new meaning as a practical Capricorn Sun with good contration powers. He never wasted a punch. His Sun-Uranus trine was strong willed and he had this ability to tap into his own power and never had to steal anybody's thunder, he had plenty of his own. The Sun-Uranus trine gave him his personal magnetism. Good astrologers have this aspect as well. His Sun-Neptune trine is about as good as it gets with eventually becoming a spiritual leader. It gave him his strong belief in his chosen religion. In his soul, he was always destined to be a spiritual person and now in many ways gives the public spiritual guidance by his courage (Mars square Pluto aspect used in a positive light). But first he had to overcome all those squares. His Moon-Mars square made him the "husband from hell" and I'm sure all his wives could attest to that. This is not the best placement for getting along with women due to volatile emotions and temper tantrums. He had little control over his emotions in those days. Alcohol use was like striking a match to a stack of dynamite. His Moon-Saturn square likes "boundaries" and emotional control. With his Venus-Saturn-Uranus square, he never should have gotten married until later in life for he needed all along what he shares with his 4th and final wife, a "good manager." This combination often brings disasters in the love life. Lots of rejections, which set him off like a tinderbox. With five earth signs financial success was a obsessional quest, it meant power he had to reach the top of the heap. His Mars-Pluto square used the "art of force" to get whatever he wanted. That may have worked in the ring, but not in marriage. This aspect also gave him his great courage. Boxing became his violent sport of choice; he prepared for a fight like a soldier prepares for war. Had he continued fighting, however, he would have eventually died a violent death, but he did find religion by his choice of Islam teachings. His Venus-Uranus square shows continued divorce until he learned his lessons. This aspect will not sacrifice personal freedom in order to make a marriage work. Uranus ruling his 7th house simply added to this. His Mercury-Pluto opposition gave him I'm sure great mental tension and lots of depression. In some respects, some things cam too easy to him (Venus trine Jupiter), What makes this "the chart" of one of the greats is that beautiful Sun in Capricorn trine his Neptune trine his Saturn trine his Uranus...in short a grand trine in earth. His chart would probably be in the same pile as Mike Bloomberg but I'd pick Ali over Mike any day of the week because it shows two men with 7 to 8 fixed signs...and today even with Parkinson's, Ali has a better attitude on life than Bloomberg will ever have. Ali has my respect. Bloomberg is still in the adolescent phase of his chart! Carole Hemingway - Starhem@aol.com
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #16 - on: 07.02.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Demian K Allan
 
Taking a closer look at Ali's chart it is evident that there was a lot more to this man than just his persona. The rising sign is in Leo which in Ali's case is very strong, with Chiron and Pluto in Leo in the 12th house (hidden strength)This coupled with his Sun in Capricorn gave Ali a shrewd bussiness sense (Sun in the 6th house of work & service) and a determined spirit (Leo rising, moon in Aquarius) both are fixed signs. However in Ali's chart there are no planets in the third house of communication, therefore we have to look at other areas withi the natal chart for his jve taliking ". The combination that I feel most demonstates his quick pace and spoken ability is the Sun (capricorn) trine to Uranus (taurus) which is the higher ocave of Mercury. Ali's was able to express himself (Sun) with orginality (Uranus) and quicknes, that could change peoples perception (Uranus in the 10th house of public standing). He also has a grand trine in the Earth signs, which means he is able to give concrete results to his words ie - winning fights. In answer to the 2nd question, again I think that Uranus sheds some light on the matter at hand. On the 25/2/64 Uranus makes a conjuction to Ali's progressed Ascendent in Virgo, his name change (image 1st house), Islamic religon being radical at the times (uranus) and in Virgo again an earth sign. Also Uranus always likes to shock and be the underdog. There is also a close conjuction with Uranus and Pluto in Virgo at the time, being in Ali's 1st house, he would of acted out a lot of peoples collective consioness, not willing to go to war (Pluto) rebeling (Uranus) self realization (ist house). On the 28/04/67 there was a trine aspect to natal Sun and transiting Uranus as in 64.
I think that Ali made the best of what he was given and became a spearhead for the people. However I dont think that you can judge or see in a chart if someone is " special ", it is up to the individual.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #17 - on: 23.02.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User George R. Blevens
 
I am from Louisville, Ky, the birthplace of Ali,and I am a also a magician, and you left something out of the comments about him. Ali's favorite hobby is magic and sleight of hand, and his teacher was Jimmy Grippo who performed close up magic in Las Vegas. As you can see from his chart,he has Neptune in a 2 degree trine to his Sun from the Second to the Sixth House. Neptune is in detriment and in the anaretic degree, which is why it is only a hobby.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #18 - on: 02.10.2002 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User walter thomas
 
I would like to know was Sonji Roi Muhhamad Ali's first wife from Gary Indiana? Please let me know. Thank you.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Adb web user
Ex Member




re: Muhammad Ali
« Reply #19 - on: 21.11.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ronnie Morris
 
I think he is verey cool. He is a verey verey good boxer
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print

As one of the largest astrology portals WWW.ASTRO.COM offers a lot of free features on the subject. With high-quality horoscope interpretations by the world's leading astrologers Liz Greene, Robert Hand and other authors, many free horoscopes and extensive information on astrology for beginners and professionals, www.astro.com is the first address for astrology on the web.
Homepage - Free Horoscopes - Astrodienst Onlineshop - Astrology Knowledge - Ephemeris - Authors and Staff - My Astro - Direct Atlas query - Sitemap - FAQ - Forum - Contact Astrodienst