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Astro-Databank: Johnny Carson (Read 251 times)
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Astro-Databank: Johnny Carson
« on: 26.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Johnny Carson, born 23 October 1925 at 07:15 AM in Corning IA
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

Johnny Carson gave TV talk shows and late-night television a new popularity. His obituary in the New York Times said, "During those three decades [of hosting The Tonight Show], he became the biggest, most popular star American television has known."
  • Dick Cavett, a colleague in talk-show hosting and comedy, called Carson "a born comedian." We know that from an early age, Carson was performing magic tricks and loved being in front of audiences. Where might you see his flair for comedy and his love for performance in his chart?
  • Despite the fact that he was a gifted TV personality and seemed to love performing, he revealed little of himself. Surely the Scorpio ascendant had a lot to do with this need for privacy. What other markers in the chart intensify this need to retreat from the public eye?
  • Though he was much beloved by his audiences, his ex-wives claimed that Carson was difficult to live with. They reported that, at times, he was an abusive and neglectful husband who smoked and drank too much. Yet he seemed to inspire great loyalty from his fellow performers like long-time sidekick Ed McMahon and musical director Doc Severinsen. What in the chart describes this dichotomy in relationships
 
The last two questions focus on one of the toughest aspects of reading a chart. How does one tell an integrated story about contradictory indications? It's easy gong from the life to the chart, but not as easy going from the chart to a reading about the life. Let's take an opportunity to learn this art by studying Johnny Carson's chart.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #1 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Cooper Neville
 
How 'bout Saturn trine Uranus trine Pluto??? Big transpersonal energy which took form in the psyche of the masses...Moon conj Jupiter in Cap sextiling Saturn and Mercury...calculing business head. Moon in Cap opposed by a Cancerian Pluto...difficult relationship with women...Sun in critical degree of Libra veiled in the 12th with a magnetic ascendant followed by a perceptive mecury which is embued with Saturn energy which again... (going full circle) is in a trine with Uranus and Pluto...quite a force!
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #2 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Marc
 
Carson was "much-beloved", but also much feared.
Throughout TV history, Moon in Capricorn has proven to be the most effective TV host-- it holds court quite effectively. Add to that the Scorpio Rising (the not-always-benign "star" of the zodiac, producing dictators, movie dragon-queens, and charmingly vicious boy-men), and WATCH OUT.
Few astrological pairings are as intelligent, clever, yes witty -- or malevolent -- as Scorpio Rising/Moon in Capricorn... They are quite adept at winning people over (hence, the popularity of Napoloean and Hitler [who I assert had Scorpio Rising, despite a 'rounded off' birthtime that puts him supposedly into the very latter degrees of Libra Rising]).
The masters of narcissistic insecurity, as long as they feel they have "control" over you, then you're (probably) okay; if they don't, their vindictiveness can be bottomless, and their tactics endlessly Machiavellian.
You will always hear dramatically varying assessments of any person with Scorpio Rising/Moon in Capricorn, many of which will be gushingly positive.
 Other Scorpio Rising/Moon in Capricorn examples: *Assassin Mark David Chapman (Taurus) *Barbara Bush (Gemini), known by usually-tightlipped White House personnel as the meanest women to ever inhabit 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, despite her grandmotherly image; also very smart, very focused. *Oliver North ('nuff said) *Maury Povich ('nuff said) All three anti-christs, as named by Nostradamus (Napolean, Hitler [if you accept the high likelihood that Libra ascendant wasn't his], and someone born under Sun in Aquarius/Scorpio Rising/Capricorn Moon.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #3 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Tresa
 
Hey I'm deviating from your format here....I'm just a baby, novice Astrologer....so 'hope you give me permission.....I love your site here and I respect all the brilliant contributors who've given me the revelation that I, as a Pisces with an overdose of Aquarius planets....most likely could never compete as a Pro....... on account of my impatient Aries moon and with the exception of Pluto in Virgo...not anything else giving me patience for detail.........
'Want to say though, God bless Johnny, who was given by God at birth that difficult Sun conjunct Mars in Libra (air-- lungs) in 12th house Pisces (addictions-- death).... Hey, if only cigarrettes were never invented......My father'd still be alive who by the way was born 2 days and 2 years before Johnny........ Hopefully Johnny relied on the saving grace of Christ at the cross.....and him and my dad are having a grand ole' time meeting up!
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #4 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
Marc, Goebbels was Scorpio Sun with Capricorn moon. Great propagandist - he had Jupiter and Venus in his third, so was a great salesman.
I read some time back that a Scorpio/Capricorn combination in a chart ensures great determination and diligence and the ability to overcome many obstacles.
That Carson has the Mercury/Saturn conjunction would lead me to suspect that he may have suffered from ill health as a child. I also see this combination as one of the reasons Cavett made the comment about his comedic ability. Saturn rules timing and comedy is all about timing and dead-pan - traits Carson definitely possessed.
Regarding women: when I was a kid I first saw him on a game show called: Who Do You Trust. He was married to a lady named Jody and had two kids - I remember that she looked a lot like him and read that they were school sweethearts. Once he got successful, he went on to a couple of other Jos. Joanne and Joanna and finally wound up with an Alexa to break the string.
I mentioned this on the Michael Moore page as well about the Capricorn moon - that it would make relationships difficult with women difficult because of a lack of warmth. Capricorn's are loyal and responsible, but often cool in expressing emotions. Since the moon often represents how the mother is experienced in someone's chart, I suspect that he felt his mother was cool or distant - possibly just from having to work. Nonetheless, not warm and nurturing and he may have picked women to recreate this energy inhis married life.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #5 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
Marc, I just remember the descriptive word that was eluding me in my earlier post about Scorpio/Capricorn combinations: ruthless.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #6 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
Tresa - Gemini rules the lungs - Libra the kidneys. Also, Carson has Aries on the 6th which rules health issues for the most part and Aries rules the head. Chiron's placement in the sixth might account for health problems as it's often called the wounded healer. His sun/Mars placements could well have led to any addictions he might have had - all the water in his chart could also indicate problems with alcohol and other depressants such as nicotine.
Regarding your Pisces/Aquarius - those are signs often associated with astrologer. Aquarius is co-ruled by Saturn which gives a stability to the sign - I'm assuming that's where your Mercury is placed. Einstein was Pisces with Mercury in Aquarius - don't sell yourself short. Start with the basics, though.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #7 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
1. Flair...the comedy comes from Mercury rising, in Scorpio...he IS comedy, and in Scorpio, he intuitively knew how to persuade others and sell himself, how to make people laugh...and how to push their buttons, for Mercury is the Magician... his ruling planet Pluto is in Cancer, in the 9th, Cancer is the sign ruled by the Queen of the Night Moon...also, his 10th House ruler, the Sun, though anaretic(final degree), was also rising, so there is the performer, and the King of Late Night...Pluto in the 9th in Cancer would give him the lion's share of domestic appeal, he is most at ease when he is doing 'big things'. 2. Retreat...well, the Water strength of the chart would certainly demand privacy...I note that the ruler of his 4th House, Uranus, is retrograde and in Pisces, in his 5th House, so I can see that he would keep some of his more scientific(Uranus) loves to himself...also the Moon is Capricornian, so he would prefer to keep his home/family life in its proper place, though he still manages to communicate warmth and 'folksy'-ness, certainly part of his charm. But then there is this 12th House Mars... 3. Dichotomy...Mars is NOT happy in the 12th House, in Libra, especially as the focus of a T-square between the ruler of his chart Pluto and the Moon/Jupiter conjunction. 12th House placements tend to become most obvious in one's private life. Air signs on the 12th can be particularly restless, especially if there are important placements there, and as Carson's 6th House is ruled by Mars, he satisfied some of that via his work(ie interacting with others in one-on-one conversation). But a talk show is only an hour or two long, and there are often more than one guest to occupy the host's interest. Mars must keep on moving, and in an Air sign, sometimes he can run roughshod over others. In the 12th and square to the Moon, he can be particularly vicious. A Capricorn Moon can be quite confining to a Libra Mars's restless need for stimulating partnerships. As a romantic partner, I can see that he was very entertaining and encouraged big dreams in his ladies(largely with the help of the pocketbook), having Venus in Sagittarius, but when it came to settling down, there was just too much stability and responsibility(Capricorn Moon). Plus that Cancer Pluto probably gave Carson a streak of making his partners 100% responsible for his feelings and needs, as if they were supposed to read his mind and be completely accountable for his home environment(ie knowing ahead of time what he would want and need and taking care of all the details in the house). He probably tried to enforce house rules, when he himself could not live up to them.  
Bill Lindsay www.astroswift.com
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #8 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza
 
That Mercury/Saturn conjunction in his 1st House....helps explain why it was sooooo hard for Carson to quit smoking over the years. He really "identified" with the habit...even when the camera would cut away to a commercial break during the Tonight Show, there would be Johnny quickly ducking under his desk to grab a smoke!
The Mercury/Saturn makes a wide square to Neptune. Since Mercury rules the lungs, this can sometimes point to lung diseases, such as emphysema.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #9 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Natori Moore
 
Venus (7th house ruler) and the Moon both in difficult aspect to Pluto, as well as Mars square the Moon, signify his difficult relationships with women. Though many people comment that he was an everyman and a "nice guy," and indeed he could be, I occasionally found him chauvinistic and even punitive in comments he made toward female guests. The men fared better, perhaps due to Mars as the apex planet in his cardinal T-square.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #10 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Tresa
 
Penelope-- Thank you... you're so right! (and sweet!) I've loved Astrology since second grade...(I think I was born to have the knowledge of it)... Yes, my merc. is in Aqu. as well as my Mars, Jup. and Sat! all in the 9th...Sun and Venus in the 10th... A famous Astrologer I briefly mentored with said he loved my chart... I wanted to go Pro... I used to think how cool it would be to be on tv like J.Jillson was on Merv! () I definitely can be funny and silly with my Gem. rising sextiling my 11th Aries moon! (Yeah... I'm easily distracted... especially with having 4 children of my own under age 12! *** Didn't Lois Rodden herself have a lot of kids --with her moon in 11th?***God rest her soul....)  
 () (Hey did Johnny have any Astrologers on?!!! I don't recall!)
...OkAY-- WHAT i really need is is a dose of some Leo self-conf!!! I have been getting fed some great stuff lately by Marshall on the radio at Sylver. Com.......(If anybody else is hungry for some!)?
Was Johnny blessed with that great Leo Mc or what?!
As for his Merc. in Scorp. (1st house to boot-- ) sharpest witt..... but, also tongue!!! My Libra husband and one of my daughters has Merc. in Scorp. not even afflicted and whoahhh... -- worse aspects in our house! Besides my guy's Sat. in Cap!
Well.... my kids are "pounding" about something..... WISH I HAD more time to DISECT charts!!!!!!
Keep up your great, inspiring work, you all!!!
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #11 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Luis
 
This is an interesting chart. J. Carson with Jup and Moon in Cap. he liked more than anything in the world to talk a lot to the public, like Hitler they both came to the public eye by talking.at the same time with the dispositor Saturn in scorpio conj Mercury, he never reveal his inner thoughts or others confidences,make him a private secretive man.Sun conj. Mars in Libra caused him conflicts in marriage and three divorces, disp Venus in sag maybe because he demanded, more freedom for him, another contradictory situation for Jhonny, he wants to be married( libra planets) but at the same time he would like to be free from compromises. He had a sudden sorrowful experience when his son died, expressed by planets in Scorpio in aspect with uranus in Pices 5 house. He also has Uranus in Pisces in the house of the cardiovascular problemas, indicating entrance to a hospital for a serious health problem sometime in his life.Probably his heavy smoking habit was caused by Jupiter(increase)fall and Moon detriment in the III house of the Lungs.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #12 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User luis
 
I mentioned Hitler because he, like JHonny has Jup. and Moon in III house.Hitler never smoke much less to drink.Thus,when you have planets in bad shape you can go either way,heavy smoking or avoid cigarretes or anything that could damage your Lungs. Liza for the sake of astrology, I will prefer to say that Neptuno (hospitals, serious illness) Leo (heart) in aspect with planets in scorpio(sign of surgery)contribute to his bypass surgery,disposed by Mars close to his Sun(himself).Also Uranus in Pisces in aspect with planets in scorpio, indicate two sudden unexpected events, the death of his Son and his sudden heart problem that caused him to be rushed to the hospital. You can correct me everytime you think I made a mistake.I wont get upset, promise.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #13 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User margueritte
 
carson once said on his show that he is Scorpio and I've always considered him that...beyond the ascendent...which is why I always understood his need for privacy..i wonder if the time or date can be wrong?????
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #14 - on: 28.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Dawn Woodhouse
 
What a wonderful combination Jupiter and Moon are positioned in the 3rd house for flair in communications skills; someone well able to communicate and reach out to the public and make contact.
Saturn and Mercury form a powerful rajayoga propelling Carson to success, positioned in his ascendant, the skills for communiation come from his 3rd house, but the fame, comes from this combination.
No doubt many examples can be found with that same Jupiter/Moon combination in the third house (not quite the same, different signs). Alice Cooper is one example, Moon Jupiter in Scorpio in the third.
Robin and Maurice Gibb have Moon Jupiter Venus in the 3rd using Placidus house cusps. Using Placidus house cusps Julie Andrew also has a Moon Jupiter conjunction with Jupiter in the 3rd.  
In their different fields we can see they are all effective communicators.
 This chart is an interesting example of the complexity of astrology. Here we have the third house both responsible for both his great success as a communicator AND for his lung disease, due to the watery nature of Moon/Jupiter and Jupiters rulership of the 6th house of health.
No doubt Johnney Carson was a product of his era with his addiction to cigarettes. Yet today we still see many have not got over that addiction.
"In 1957 Carson became the host of ABC's Who Do You Trust? game show gaining notice for his quick wit and repartee. Carson was selected to replace popular Jack Paar as host of the The Tonight Show in 1962." 1957 18 year period of Rahu in the 10th house commenced. Rahu in 10th jolted his rise in life along.
 "Carson was selected to replace popular Jack Paar as host of the The Tonight Show in 1962. In over 30 years as its host...." Rahu period, Jupiter sub period up to Sep 1962 was running. His great communication skills got personal recognition at this time. Jupiter in the star of ascendant lord Venus, got him personal recognition for communication.
"Carson's second son, Richard, born on June 18, 1952, was killed when his car ran off the road down an embankment on June 21, 1991." Ketu was transitting 5th house, Mars was aspecting it from the 11th house. Carson was in Saturn period (ruling 5th house of children)
 "In mid-September 2002, he released the information that he had emphysema. Carson died at his Malibu home early in the morning of January 23, 2005. He was 79."
Running Saturn Mars Venus at time of death. Mars and Venus are both maraka planets (capable of killing) additionally its worth noting that both at the time of birth and in transit Saturn was in Jupiters star (natal 6th lord of Carson, positioned in 3rd house of lungs) and Mars is in Moon star, (nakshatra rulers) also in 3rd. the culprits in his lung condition. Mars is significator of 3rd house matters. But we can also see Mercury, ruler of natural 3rd house sign is debilitated in 9th divisional chart. That does not help with the lungs.
 Turmoil in marriage: Seventh lord mars goes to the 12th house in an inimical sign, Virgo and is further afflicted by debilitation in navamsa. Mars is hemmed in by Rahu and Sun therefore compounding a firey nature in marriage. Mars matures at age 35 so it was his early marriages that caused the most problems.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #15 - on: 29.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza
 
Dawn,
How do you see Jupiter as the ruler of Carson's 6th House of health??? To me Jupiter rules his 2nd House, and trines his Leo MC, and with Venus in Sag also positioned there, these are strong indicators of his ability to create great wealth from communicating through television.....Uranus in the 5th trine his Mercury/Saturn conjunction, with Neptune ruling that House, and positioned in the 10th.
Thanks!
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #16 - on: 29.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Liza
 
More specifically, I meant to say: Venus in Sag in the 2nd trines his Leo MC!
Liza
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #17 - on: 29.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Joanne Larkins
 
His love to shine can been seen in the spotlight of Leo on the cusp of his MC, with Neptune there, all that glitters and glamour would give him a sort of lust to be where the action is. He may have felt most alive, on his TV show where there was adulation for his talents, and for the respect he both felt from and showed to his guests. Particularly in the dark, or private 12th house where both Sun and Mars are in his natal chart, there is an altruistic need to help others to discover the spotlight, that he himself immensely enjoyed. However, in his ability to help others the Sun opposite Chiron in the 6th, it would equally serve to hinder his own ability to heal his own wounds, especially of those from a distant father, or a domineering mother, as seen by Aquarius on the cusp of the 4th, and Leo on the 10th. There is a triangle of planetary energy that dominates, the Moon in detriment in Capricorn,conjunct Jupiter, ruled by Saturn in Scorpio, which in turn is ruled by Pluto in Cancer. So Moon, Saturn and Pluto are sources of deep structured and mostly obscured energy, in my opinion, that least served his own needs in personal relationships/marriages. Perhaps, he just was not able to go beyond his own childhood conditioning, was not able to use either of his parents as a role model, to adjust from all that was glamorous on the tv screen to fulfill a sensual, laid back life within the structure of a marriage, preferring the lights, camera and action.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #18 - on: 29.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Elaine Roberts
 
The negative side of the Capricorn moon is being cold and abusive. Remember, Capricorns worry about what others think of them, that is why he was such a nice guy and great friend, but he took it out on his wife in private, and maybe his sons, too. No one could see that. Jupiter conjunct his moon greatly expanded these feelings he had, and was his mom perceived by him as cold and distant? His friends would say, he's such a nice guy and down to earth (earth sign), and his wives would say how controlling (Capricorns like to be boss)and abusive he was. Pluto in Cancer opposing his Moon conjunct Jupiter fed more rage to this aspect and his covert cover ups and glib comments kept it a secret. He secretly sent jokes to Dave Letterman so he could be private and liked.
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re: Johnny Carson
« Reply #19 - on: 29.01.2005 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sally
 
If you look to Magi astrology (www.magisociety.com), Johnny has a natal trine with Neptune and Chiron. In Magi astrology this is considered a Cinderella and an enhancement aspect showing long term financial security and is one of the best that you can have for business and having "the highest level of financial security." Although Johnny paid alimony to his ex-wives, he still seemed to bounce back financially each time.  
In traditional astrology, I have known people with Scorpio ascendants and some of them were quite mean. Does anyone have any comments on that?
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Current Planets
31-Aug-2014, 10:12 UT/GMT
Sun7Virgo56'38"
Moon13Scorpio15'46"
Mercury27Virgo13'15"
Venus23Leo28'14"
Mars21Scorpio12'24"
Jupiter10Leo2'30"
Saturn18Scorpio0'40"
Uranus15Aries53' 9"r
Neptune6Pisces8' 6"r
Pluto11Capricorn7'16"r
TrueNode19Libra55'25"
Chiron15Pisces45' 6"r
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