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Astro-Databank: Liberace (Read 163 times)
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Astro-Databank: Liberace
« on: 30.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
Discussion about
Liberace, born 16 May 1919 at 11:15 PM in West Allis WI
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

Can you find "over-the top" written at least four ways in the chart to compensate for a Saturn aspect to both his Sun and Moon?
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re: Liberace
« Reply #1 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Donna Cunningham
 
The over the top component may be seen at least a couple of ways involving the Midheaven and Ascendant:
  • Venus and Pluto conjunct in the Gauquelin sector in the sixth forming a grand trine with Uranus in Pisces and the Scorpio Midheaven.
  • Neptune in Leo quincunx the Capricorn Ascendant and square the Scorpio Midheaven.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #2 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Eric Linter
 
1) Cancer stellium of Ju, Pl, Ve  
2) stellium placement on 7th House cusp  
3) Uranus square the Sun  
4) Uranus square Mars  
5) Saturn's wide opp to Uranus
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re: Liberace
« Reply #3 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Lea Breuer
 
On the 90 degree dial, using Uranian Astrology, with 'cookbook' interpretations from "Rules for planetary pictures" by Witte-Lefeldt and Ebertin's COSI, one finds the following pictures in Liberace's natal chart (orbs are less than 30 minutes of arc):  
1. Mc = (exactly, to the minute) KRONOS (Greatness. everything above average.) = Mercury (Thought. News. Motion. Assertion. Writer)  = Venus/Jupiter (An artist who has the ability to radiate his own inner happiness, and the tendency to gain popularity quickly, yet may suffer disadvantages through wastefulness or through rich living and sickness.)  = Jupiter/Pluto (Ambition, assiduity and industriousness, the desire to succeed as a manager. Advantages in one's own occupation, advancement and promotion, great luck.) = Sun/Mars (+ Advancement in life through one's own effort, acceptance of leading positions, The overcoming of difficulties and dangers, Vocational success, extraordinary achievement. - Failures caused by too heavy demands made upon oneself and others, overstrain.)  = Cupido/Apollon (Success as an artist)  = Node/Neptune (Peculiar or strange conduct in communal life)  = Moon/Vulcanus (To cause great public sensation. To be very powerful and influential. To be Superior. A personage of public might) = Saturn/Admetos (To be patient)  = Uranus/Poseidon( Mentally alive and alert. Television, moving pictures)  = Mercury+Pluto-Venus (The inclination to take an interest in unusual and specialized artistic fields and also to make propaganda for it. An unrestrained sex expression, the preoccupation with peculiar problems in love.)  = Venus+Cupido-Jupiter (Rich, successful artist)  = Pluto+Cupido-Jupiter (Fortunate development of art and of social relations. )  = Asc+Cupido-Jupiter (Being jolly with other people. Have many homes)  = Sun+Zeus-Saturn (A fanatic with perseverance)  = Node+Zeus-Uranus (Joining with others for unusual, exciting creative accomplishment)  = Mars+Cupido-Uranus (Sensational artistic activity)  = Uranus+Neptune-Vulcanus (The beginning of a large revolution)  
2. Venus and Pluto are exactly conjunct the Desc:  Asc = Venus=Pluto = Venus/Pluto (An attractive and fascinating personality wielding a great influence upon other people. A special artistic giftedness. Fanatic in love or in art. An excessive expression of the sex urge.)  
3. Aries Point (The native in the public eye) = Venus/Cupido ("Pleasant company. Popular artist") Mercury/Jupiter ("Cheerful mood. Talent for speech.") Pluto/Cupido ("Development of an art. Social transformation.")  Jupiter/Kronos ("Financial giant.")  Mc/Jupiter ("Blissful feelings affecting the world.") Asc/Cupido ("Dwellings. To love social life.") Mars/Neptune ("Infection, Dissolution destruction.") Uranus/Zeus ("The will. Dynamo. Electric power.") Mercury/Apollon ("Thinking of the masses. Knowledge of languages. Many talks. Spreading an idea.")  Mc/Apollon ("Great and rich experiences in a lifetime. One who will hear and see much.")  Kronos/Apollon ("Authority figure in public. Expanding qualities and skills.")  Node/Neptune ("Dissolution and separation.") Mars/Apollon ("Generous way of acting. Successful activity that is expanded and enlarged.")  Node/Apollon ("Freedom. Business connections.") Sun/Moon ("Friendship with the public.")  Saturn/Poseidon ("Education")  Node/Admetos ("Connected with a few through matters of death or mourning.")  Venus/Poseidon ("Faith, religion, world concept. Platonic love. Favored by the media")  Pluto/Poseidon ("Transformation of world concept.") Asc/Poseidon ("Dealing with the media or with advertising.")  Zeus+Admetos-Mc,Kronos,Mercury ("Shaping great things.")  Mercury+Venus-Neptune ("Poetic, story teller, fantastic person.")  Asc+Mercuty-Neptune ("Evil gossip by others") Asc+Mc-Neptune ("Aesthetically involved. Professional glamorous musician.")  Sun+Hades-Mars ("Blood diseases.") Venus+Uranus-Vulcanus ("Enjoying tremendous popularity.")  Uranus+Pluto-Vulcanus ("Mighty jumps ahead.") Moon+Moon-Vulcanus ("Very influential public figure.") Asc+Uranus-Vulcanus ("Intesified excitement to other people.")  Venus+Apollon-Node ("Connected with the science of music. Artistic connections with many.") Pluto+Apollon-Node ("Connected to business enlargement or to great transformations.") Asc+Apollon-Node ("Many customers.
[continued in next posting]
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re: Liberace
« Reply #4 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Lea Breuer
Many business connections")  Jupiter+Node-Moon ("fortunate connections with the public.")  Poseidon+poseidon-Moon ("Media") Moon+(Asc,Venus,Pluto)-Poseidon ("Under the influence of the higher and finer qualities of the mind").
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re: Liberace
« Reply #5 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Teresa Hamilton
 
Liberace has (Sidereal) Sagittarius rising and Jupiter in the 7th house in its own lunar house. Recently we've had two other charts on Newsmakers with angular Jupiters: Evel Knievel (Jup in 1st) and Wilt Chamberlain (Jup in 7th). It's becoming obvious that a strong angular Jupiter can result in splash, bravado, and large public appeal. Venus rules the (Sidereal) 11th house of gain in Liberace's chart. It's angular and conjunct Jupiter, the Ascendant lord. Enough said (about wealth). In the Indian system, Saturn does not aspect the Sun, and throws only a weak trine to the Moon. This aspect is far overshadowed by the 7th house Venus/Pluto/Jupiter conjunction trined by Uranus in Aquarius (sound waves...music) from the third house (the arts, because this is Gemini's house...hands and arms).  
MALE HOMOSEXUALITY: This is not elusive if we take the hints from ancient texts and use the Sidereal zodiac. According to ABU'ALI AL-KHAYYAT: THE JUDGMENTS OF NATIVITIES, a 9th century Arabian text, Chapter 25 (AFA 1988), those with a particular interaction of Venus/Mercury/Saturn and their signs "will delight more in masculine intercourse than in feminine." I've researched quite a number of gay male charts, and find this to be generally true. The Sidereal navamsa (9th harmonic) chart must be used along with the natal chart to collaborate the pattern. For men we focus on the 7th house of relationships and Venus as the planet of relating. In Liberace's chart we find Venus with two male planets (Pluto and Jupiter) in Gemini (sign of Mercury) in the 7th. We find the dispositor of these planets, Mercury, in Aries, a male sign, squared by Saturn (by sign). Mercury's dispositor (Mars) is in a Taurus, a sign of Venus.  
Then we look at the navamsa chart: Cancer is the Ascendant. Venus is found with three male planets (Mars, Pluto, Sun) in the 7th in Capricorn, a sign of Saturn. This conjunction is in square to the nodes in Aries/Libra. The lord of the 7th house is Saturn, and its dispositor is Jupiter with the nodes. So all of these are tied together: Venus with masculine planets in the 7th in square to the nodes and 7th dispositor. It's a tight picture, which also describes Liberace's fame as a musician because Jupiter is in the 10th, and Mars (Jupiter's dispositor) is with Venus in the angular 7th. Added to the ancient Venus/Saturn/Mercury picture, I've also found that Pluto and the Moon's nodes linked to Venus/7th relate to male homosexuality. The lesbian picture is different because we're dealing with women instead of men.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #6 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sylvia Tobias
 
While Liberace has Capricorn rising, generally considered a more conservative sign, its ruler, Saturn, is in flamboyant Leo. Capricorn is a sign of ambition and Leo is the showman. Saturn's square to the Sun and Mars intensified Liberace's need to get to the top. It also indicates an indefatigable worker. Of course, the Leo and Taurus placements would also emphasize his need to be noticed, admired and surrounded by luxury. This is further accentuated by the Venus/Pluto conjunction in Cancer, on the descendant, just 7 degrees from Jupiter. His Sagittarius Moon would create a playful and fun-loving personality and make him generally easy-going. Mercury in Taurus, adds to his love of sensual pleasures, money and possessions. Uranus in Pisces in the second house would help to explain his desire to be surrounded by things which might shock or amaze or somehow be different from the norm.  
I don't believe any one thing points to anything in particular, but taken as a whole, the chart seems to describe him quite well. Above all, he was a showman who found the right "gimmick" to help him get attention and rise to the top. That provided him with enough income to live the luxurious life he led.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #7 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jackie Slevin
 
Over the top written in four ways in Liberace's chart:
  • Venus conjunct exalted Jupiter
  • Venus conjunct Pluto within a 4 minute orb
  • Exalted Jupiter conjunct Pluto
  • Exalted Jupiter trine the MC
 
(Jupiter rules Liberace's 2nd, 11th and 12th houses. No wonder his income, "friendships" and behind the scenes activities were the worst kept secrets in Tinseltown. The ruler of these houses was exalted and in a close trine to his MC! What better aspect to get one's name in the tabloids?)  
His homosexuality:  
Using Placidus houses, dual signs Gemini and Virgo are on the cusps of the both 5th and 8th houses. Mercury, ruler of both houses of sexual expression, is the only neutral planet, all the others are either masculine or feminine. Even when using Equal houses, Mercury is conjunct the cusp of the 5th and ambiguous Neptune is conjunct the 8th.  
As an aside, Liberace's Saturn aspects to both Sun and Moon served him well. They endowed him with the necessary discipline to spend endless hours practicing the piano. Sun and Moon rule the parents and both Mom and Dad were musical. He inherited his talent from both sides of the family.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #8 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Anon.
 
Way #1: His Venus & Jupiter are ruled by the Moon in Sagittarius, which is an "expanded" Moon and is in mutual reception with the Jupiter in Cancer.  
Way #2: His Sun in Taurus (material accumulation) is closely conjunct Mars in Taurus (detriment), which is ruled by an exact conjunction of its ruler (Venus) to Pluto, amping up the materialistic grasping to a high degree of extremism.  
Way #3: Venus, which rules not only his Sun but his 10th House cusp, is also in an exact square to Chiron (as is, of course Pluto), giving all his Venus functions a quality of suffering and unfulfillment.  
Way #4: His Saturn in Leo (detriment) is ruled by the Sun in Taurus, giving him a need to prove himself and compensate for his sense of inadequacy through material means. Not to mention his Mercury in Taurus squared by Neptune in Leo, which also obscures his ability to see clearly the true nature of the material world, blinded as he is by his delusions of personal grandeur.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #9 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Dorothy J. Kovach
 
For 'over the top' I assume we have to mean Jupiter. 1. Jupiter angular  2. Jupiter angular and exalted  3. Jupiter conjoined to Venus  4. Venus also angular  5. Jupiter and Venus in direct aspect (moiety of opposition to 1st cusp) to the Ascendant  6. Ruler of Ascendant Leo (albeit Saturn, it is still Leo)  
For homosexuality and please, these are not rules, but these are just some thoughts:  
1. Moon square Uranus, aberration in attraction to women. Moon is also separating from Uranus, and placed in his 12th house, leading me to believe, that Liberace might have been a woman in previous incarnations.  2. Venus trine Uranus something different about who he loves.  3. Mars, for the male principle, is fallen and in Venus's sign in the 5th. for what he loves, and conjoined to the Sun, more of what he loves.  4. Mars is on the antiscion of Neptune at the 8th  5. Neptune is in a quincunx to the Ascendant  
Another interesting factor in Liberace's chart from a traditional perspective is that his Sun is conjoined to the infamous nasty star of the Perseus constellation, Algol. Algol is said to make a person 'lose their head' in the matter. Now the thing interesting here (at least to me) and much overlooked is that Ptolemy said that Algol is of both the nature of Saturn, and Jupiter! Nobody ever thinks of Algol as Jupiterian, but in Liberace's chart, conjoined to the creative Sun, with all of his other Jupiterian aspects, we might say that Liberace, lost his head over creativity, and in this situation, the creativity was Music. I think Mars so close and also on the antiscion of Neptune contributed to Liberace's absorption in Music.
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re: Liberace
« Reply #10 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sy Scholfield
 
The Sun, Jupiter and Neptune are the large extra-terrestrial objects associated with excess and grandiosity. We can also look for planets in their Signs (Leo, Sagittarius, Pisces) and at the rulers of their associated houses (Fifth, Ninth and Twelfth). The chart for the "Wizard of Ooze" has Saturn in Leo (ruling the Capricorn Ascendant) opposite the Neptune discovery degree of 25 Aquarius, trine Moon in Sagittarius in Twelfth, and square Sun in Fifth. (I use Equal houses). Neptune in Leo is inconjunct the Ascendant and trine the Twelfth House cusp. Angular Jupiter (ruler of Twelfth) conjuncts angular Venus (ruler of Fifth) and squares angular Chiron (ruler of Ninth).  
While it's topical, I don't speculate on astrological indicators of (homo)sexuality. An astro-chart won't conclusively tell if it's subject is male or female, in between, homo or hetero or bisexual, human or animal, or whatever. If it did, astrologers would be playing God! And I don't think we are here to do that (!).  
As recently-deceased (and unlike Liberace, always "out-of-the-closet" gay) commentator Quentin Crisp said, "Liberace's appeal never depended on his being heterosexual or even sexual. His audience treated him as though he were an expensive Persian cat wearing a diamante collar." Says a lot about that Saturnine planet in the Leonine Sign in the House of sex!!!!  
Moreover, that Saturn in aspect to both luminaries (rulers of 7th and 8th) in Liberace's chart has a lot to say about a regal man whose popularity lay mostly with older heterosexual women; who denied his (homo)sexuality all his life; and who seemed quite mean in the end to his younger lover who had even acquiesced to requests to have his face surgically re-arranged to look like Liberace's. OK, that reconstructed visage probably has lots to do with Liberace's Venus (ruler of equal house Midheaven) conjunct Pluto on 7th cusp opposite Ascendant (ruled by that Saturn).. ("I want my lover to transform and physically mirror my prettier younger self").. !  
As the editor of a website on astrology for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders ("Astroqueer's Stars"), may I ask that when the next heterosexual person is profiled here that we speculate on astrological indicators of HETEROSEXUALITY and put some straight people under the microscope!! Should be interesting!!
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re: Liberace
« Reply #11 - on: 31.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User James H Smith
 
1/Mars oriental to the Sun, 2/Sun/Mars conjunction in attention getting 5th. 3/Moon in Sag 4/Node/Uranus square does things to shock, stir up things, defy traditional, staid folks, and often just for the **** of it!! By the way, Pluto (exactly on an angle) is always strong in the charts of musical geniuses. See Lennon, Mozart and ...
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