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Astro-Databank: Jimmy Hoffa (Read 164 times)
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Astro-Databank: Jimmy Hoffa
« on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Jimmy Hoffa, born 14 February 1913 at 06:52 AM in Brazil IN
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

As one article pointed out, it is ironic that Hoffa's middle name is Riddle, since his disappearance has been one of the enduring puzzles of the 20<sup>th</sup> centuries and continues to be a mystery into the 21<sup>st</sup>. Just recently, at the end of May 2006, the FBI conducted one of its periodic searches for his body, giving up after two weeks of digging in Milford, Michigan.  
Given the recent interest in him, we thought it would be fascinating to look at this man's chart for clues to his personality, his drive, and his fame and fate.
  • Hoffa was a Type A personality, driven in his mission to stand up for labor, whatever the means. Where in the chart do you see his commitment to his cause, his ability to strategize ways to strengthen the bargaining power of the union, and the devotion that so many union members gave him?
  • Where in the chart do you find his conservative streak and his willingness to consort with organized crime to achieve his ends?
  • What factors in the chart might give us some clues about his eventual disappearance from view (through death, murder or exile) and enduring fame?
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #1 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Carol
 
Good choice!
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #2 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
he's a double aquarius with a square to moon/saturn in taurus. to me that says a lot about commitment to a group cause and it explains his conservative streak. consorting with organized crime, his eventual disappearance and enduring fame seem connected to the mars/neptune opposition on the 12/6 house cusp... definitely a strong and powerful figure with so many planets in fixed signs, the only mutable being pluto which is tied very nicely to his aquarius combo of sun/mercury/ascendent.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #3 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
the fact his moon/saturn conjunction is so tight and exact to his ascendant suggests someone with great popularity and authority in a particular area- in his case, raising the standard of living and justice to workers in the work place- through unionization of those workers.. i wonder how much the ideas of unions has to do with uranus in aquarius? i suppose it would have been quite unorthodox during his time, but given his early history also reflected in this moon/saturn combo, he would see it as an honourable cause worth pursuing so ardently..
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #4 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User lucia
 
sun combust mercury directing his ascendent from a last house perspective gives Hoffa instinctual quickness, especially with pluto in the 6th, he serves and rallies the common-man, (teamsters). 11 house carpicorn/mars trine 4th house moon& saturn is inventive about bringing money home. (forcefull, mechinacial engineer,loves large machines and industry, restless over abundance of wit and energy.)
Sun/mercury square moon/saturn, aquarius/uranus in the last. his people expected him to STAY the SAME, it was his desire to change that made others take his like. Jupiter&mars in capricorn, knows right from wrong, understands what he's doing to family and country. He was living a lie and wanted integrity he expected from his family and the common man who supported him.  
NN& venus conq. in the second, money came too quick, and with it power, trine uranus in the 12 it was at the expense of truth, (bended truth) and he knew it. He fooled other people but not himself.
a very entertaining charismatic man who was a good story teller.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #5 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Penelope
 
That strong square from the Sun/Mercury/ASC to Moon/Saturn suggests to me an extremely stubborn person, pretty much unwilling to bend to any rules other than his own. The Saturn gave a coolness to the usual warmth of the Taurus moon.  
It seems to me that if he wanted something to support his wishes, he would use whatever means possible. This suggests that if the crime bosses wanted him to act in such a way that would have an adverse effect of something he wanted, he would rebel.
Jupiter in Capricorn ruling the Sag M/C suggests benevolence in his career role and the Capricorn placement giving a solid persona that the union members resonated to - a father figure. Tough, strong-willed - solid, but also vibrant and generous.
As far as his disappearance and likely demise - I would suggest the Chiron in Pisces in the 1st as a signifier. It is the healer - another reason the members were loyal to him - but suggests the mystery surrounding his life in general. Mercury and the Sun are in the 12th.
So whatever his public persona - all bright Sag - there were secrets upon secrets upon secrets that controlled his life's journey.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #6 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User tanya lyons  
 
numerologically speaking hoffa was a 14/5 outer personality =a communcator verbal and written ?? and his life path was 30/3 so he had a way of expressing him self that held an audience he liked to be free to express his truth he would have been connected with the law=3 and he would have done things differently because he was aquaria 4=builder and conservetive in practical matters and he would have played or loved music
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #7 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User John Hines
 
On the day of his disappearance transiting Uranus was square his Mars, natal Uranus, and Neptune, forming a T square. Tansiting Uranus was in his eighth house (death). I believe from this that he was murdered.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #8 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Paula R. Gassmann, Moderator
 
The planets with the most dignity in Hoffa's chart are Mars and the Moon, and interestingly they are in trine relationship. The ruler of his chart is Saturn, partile to the Moon and in square to the Sun-Mercury-ASC. Mercury rules the 8th and the Moon-Saturn are positioned close to the fixed stars Algol (beheading/losing his head) and Alcyone ("accidents").  
There is no clarity on his disappearance. Was his ending/the end of the matter (4th house)as a result of one of these two factors? The lack of clarity itself is Neptunian, which is tied up in an opposition to strong Mars. On the day of his disappearance, July 30, 1975, Mars at 20 Taurus was applying to the Moon-Saturn, and recapitulating the previous solar eclipse at 19 Taurus. Transiting Jupiter (24 Aries) was squaring the Mars-Neptune opposition; Saturn (24 Cancer) was conjoined to the Neptune (cement and water comes to mind); Uranus (28 Libra)was at the other end of the cardinal cross; Neptune (9 Sag.) was applying to the MC (reputation); Pluto (7 Libra) was squaring natal Jupiter and opposing natal Venus. Using union members' pension funds to provide loans to crime figures, and thereby owning a piece of the money of Las Vegas sounds like money troubles. The mystery is Plutonian, and it is intriguing that in dealing with the mob, the transiting N. Node was at 28 Scorpio, just at the cusp of the 10th house.  
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #9 - on: 15.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User J
 
What an amazing chart.Sun and Mercury so close to the ascendant, Moon and Saturn in exact conjunct an nth from the 3rd, Pluto 1 degree from the 4th, Mars hugging the 12th. An unusually complex individual.
Great choice for a study!
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #10 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ann O. Neemus
 
I always think of the quincunx symbol as a man without a head, or where we express ourselves in a harmful way or fail to think before we act. Hoffa had Pluto and Mars quincunx, and Neptune and Venus quincunx. Then we see Neptune (mysteries) opposite Mars. Moon and Saturn in the 4th house of endings, and in Taurus, suggests, along with the other factors, that Hoffa was killed or buried on a farm, and that the mafia was behind his death. Recently, an extensive search was performed on a farm in Michigan, with no luck. The quincunx aspects suggest his body may be in several parts, buried in several locations. The south node, located in the 8th house in Libra, suggests Hoffa, to his detriment, had a hard time "balancing" his ego and wanted to have things both ways. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Sun and Mercury in the 12th, quincunx Neptune,suggests his body will never be found.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #11 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stands Pat with Full House
 
Mercury/Sun on the Ascendant trine Pluto suggests a business person in a powerful position. Can be an obsessive bully. Mercury/Pluto aspects are among those which are potentially criminal. It certainlly offers qualifications for organizational ability. Very, very shrewd person above all.
Sun on the Ascendant is very energetic and bigger than life. Add Moon-trine-Mars (Pluto trine Asc.) and we see the Type A personality. The combination of Pluto-trine-Ascendant and Moon-trine-Mars suggests that he was in a position to throw his weight around. Mars-trine-Saturn is well suited to a crew chief who can handle leather necks.
Venus is at the Mars/Pluto midpoint with Jupiter squaring the same midpoint. This merges a close square with a midpoint picture elevating it to a configuration. This describes both his vast popularity, his capacity to organize on a grand scale, and his tendency to live ruthlessly and dangerously.
MC opposes the Pluto/Saturn midpoint suggesting hard labor and potential cruelty and perhaps a cruel fate.
Mars in the Twelfth House oppose Neptune certainly suggests a secret enemy. This opposition certainly led to waywardness. It is also Mars/Uranus oppose Neptune suggesting disappearances. Also very irritable.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #12 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stands Pat with Full House
 
Sun in 12th square Saturn suggests jail time.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #13 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
paula - prog sun would have been at 27 aries 20 on the day he disappeared.. that would trigger the sun/saturn sun in his natal chart, as prog sun would be 30 from natal saturn.. also prog sun is at the mercury/pluto midpoint of 27 aries 19.. midpoints are fascinating, aren't they? from this i tend to agree with john hines that he was murdered.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #14 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Janet
 
2. Conservative streak-how many Saturn connections do you want me to list. Willingness to consort with organized crime; sun, mercury in 12th trine Pluto.Pluto ruling the 10th in equal house chart; 3. came to a violent end :pluto square 8th; Neptune opposite Mars; buried deep within the earth; Mars conjunct Uranus sudden end. 1. type A personality and committed: Aquarius Sun and Mercury conjunct trine to Pluto; strategize way to strenthen power of union: Mars in Capricorn; devotion inherent in the Aquarius Sun, Mercury with doing humanitarian causes; Jupiter in Capricorn becomes well recognized through career. It would be interesting to look at the progressed chart for the current digging for his body wherever that farm is.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #15 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Jotown
 
<b>1.) </b> " Where in the chart do you see his commitment to his cause, his ability to strategize ways to strengthen the bargaining power of the union, and the devotion that so many union members gave him?"
For starters an Aquarius ASC along with a Sagittarius Midheaven can produce a very idealistic individual. The MC ruler (Jupiter) is in Capricorn and the ASC ruler (Uranus) is dignified in Aquarius and conjunct Mars in Capricorn; Mars is also opposite Neptune. This shows the commitment (Mars and Jupiter in Capricorn) based on idealism (Mars conjunct Uranus and opposite Neptune). The Mars/Uranus conjunction opposite Neptune can especially produce a zealot (one who would fight and die for what he believes in).
His 12th house Sun conjunct Mercury (and Mercury ruing the 8th house of other people money) show the ability to wield power behind the scenes (12th house) in regards to money and negotiations (8th house). Exalted Mercury in Aquarius trines Pluto and is in quincunx to Neptune. This greatly enhances the imagination and depth of intellect a great strategist needs.
The exact conjunction of Moon (the people) and Saturn (Him) in Taurus (loyalty) highlight the devotion he received from Union Members. That the Moon rules the 6th house of workers and Saturn rules the 11th house of groups and organizations; along with the Sun ruling the Leo 7th house of partners greatly enhances the case for loyalty.
Also the natural ruler of the 11th house (Uranus) in the sign of its dignity (Aquarius) surely helps here
<b>2.) </b> " Where in the chart do you find his conservative streak and his willingness to consort with organized crime to achieve his ends? "
Jupiter in Capricorn along with Saturn and the Moon in Taurus show the conservative nature. Venus in Aries (in detriment) in Square to Jupiter show how his values (Venus) around Money (Venus/ 2nd house) were skewed enough to allow his secretive 12th house Sun and Mercury to justify his underworld connections (Pluto trine Sun/Mercury) . Pluto in the 5th house in connection to 12th house Sun/Mercury also shows someone willing to gamble (5th house) with other people's money (Mercury ruling the 8th).
<b>3.) </b> " What factors in the chart might give us some clues about his eventual disappearance from view (through death, murder or exile) and enduring fame? "
The Sun in the 12th house of exile conjunct Mercury (ruler of the 8th house of death) show his disappearance and possible murder. The enduring fame can be seen by Jupiter in Capricorn as most elevated planet along with Venus in the second house trine the Midheaven.  
The Moon/Saturn conjunction also enhances this as it shows his affection from the people (Moon) would endure the test of time (Saturn). That both of these planets are in the sign of form (Taurus) strengthens this.
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #16 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User lucia
 
capricorn mars opp cancer neptune, 11/12 hs and 5/6th respectively gives, surface tension and undercurrent for all action. mystery surrounds Hoffa's life. This wasen't a hated man/father. The aquarius sun/mercury, 12/1, square 4th taurus moon/saturn, is a man who can't be himself, control personal destiny, or take a path of feelings.  
Very powerfull brilliant, bossy Aquarius, change cost him his life. People felt tricked, decieved, he sold himself then switched the product. (4th/5th hs pluto trine 12/1 sun/mercury).
In death we try and discover life. The lack of hard evidence, the exhuminations, 'HOFFA' ringing through history, the many books and myths, is about trying to find him, can't find a body, can't understand a life.
thanks Paula...
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #17 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User sandstone
 
astrologers views on houses are wonky... either he has a sun/mercury conjunct the ascendant and that is very first house in nature, or the ascendant is like some berlin wall that never comes down and once crossed always implies two completely different worlds.. also, it seems one has to completely negate the sign relationships.. capricorn is 11th house to aquarius?? i thought it was 12th to aquarius.. perhaps someone would like to share their views on planets close to the ascendant and above the horizon. anyone have a sun just a degree or 2 aboce the horizon line want to comment on it? thanks-
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #18 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rob Gaydon
 
ANOTHER chiron riser
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re: Jimmy Hoffa
« Reply #19 - on: 16.06.2006 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rob Gaydon
 
any body around the ascendant can have great significance.
a body can be well into the twelfth.
bodies around the rising point should be looked at throughly in their condition to the rest of the chart.
the 12th/1st is not the black and white place popular astrclogy has it to be.
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