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Astro-Databank: Leonardo da Vinci (Read 1068 times)
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Astro-Databank: Leonardo da Vinci
« on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Leonardo da Vinci, born 23 April 1452 Greg.Cal. at 9:40 PM in Vinci
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

The popularity of The Da Vinci Code novel has led many of us to wonder about the life of the real da Vinci. We all know him as a genius of art, science and engineering. Did you also know, though, that he was illegitimate, left-handed, vegetarian, homosexual?  
His childhood was stigmatized by illegitimacy. Just as his physical beauty and artistic genius began to counter the illegitimacy stigma, he was hit with an accusation of sodomy. This seemed to have set him on a paranoid, misanthropic track. My favorite quote: "How many people there are who could be described as mere channels for food, producers of excrement, fillers of latrines."  
Leonardo seems to have been destined to live outside of societal norms, although this may have served him well as he probed deeply into how things actually worked at a time when tradition obscured true vision. His boundless curiosity led him into all-night vigils, dissecting decomposing criminal cadavers in search of the truth about human physiology. As a result, he discovered blood circulation and was able to reach new heights in realism. (He compared Michelangelo's overly-musculatured painting to bags of nuts.)
  • Where is his destiny to live outside of convention written in the chart?
  • Where is his keen precise observation of nature?
  • Can one see genius in a chart?
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #1 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Rev. Vern Huffman
 
Hi folks, As an astologer since 1968, I've run across 'genius' a couple of times. In every case Mercury was in 'strong' aspect to Pluto. The opposition to Saturn shows me that he was a deep thinker.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #2 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User brent kaufman  
 
I'm new to Astrology, but I notice that his MC in Virgo gave him strong aspirations to help improve humanity and work with details. But it is on the cusp of Libra, which he uses to bring harmony to society's conflicting ideals of religion/science by using the conjunction with Neptune to tune into society's aspiration to grow and evolve through the beauty of art and science. The MC and conjunct Neptune are trine Venus which enhances Leonardo's appreciation for both (art and science). Although this isn't genius, itself, it provides a fertile ground for an already high IQ to flourish.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #3 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User cynthia novak
 
I ran the chart on Solar Fire. I have checked and double checked my data entry but still I come up with a Cancer Moon and 12 degree Taurus Sun. How do we know which is correct and what do you think may cause the disparity?
I look forward to this discussion
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #4 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
1. He has the Moon conjunct his ruling planet, Jupiter, in the Fourth House and Pisces. With a life style strongly influenced by Neptune, he is bound to live unconventionally, being very sensitive and moved by memories and subconscious triggers. Neptune himself is placed in Libra, in the 11th House, it is likely that many of these influences existed among his friends and in his public life. No doubt he was very receptive to ideas and inspiration from them. There is no doubt that he had an extremely broad mind, it shows in the chart through his rising degree, the powerful double-kite that it completes(at least by transit), and through the Jupiter conjunction with his Moon/sextile his Sun, showing that it consumed him in his private life as well. 2. I tie Pisces to truly vivid recollection of past events, and I think that this can also include attention to details of experiences, and this may also be a Jupiter in Pisces trait. Besides it is sextile to his Sixth House Sun, which could only be of help to his work and creative pursuits. The Sixth House is where we do things the way they need to be done, and he has Taurus there, and I have seen Taurus powerful in the charts of highly detailed painters(whose subjects you would feel like you could reach into the paintings and touch, and touch is a key word with Taurus). 3. I notice that I haven't mentioned Uranus yet, but I think he is important, and as he is sextile to DV's Venus, plays a part in his sexual pursuits. It is clear that he did not walk the beaten path in this area, as many geniuses do not. But I think that genius can also be found in a number of other ways, and the Sun is significant(how can one be a genius without producing something that shows it?). Sextiles to the Sun show great ideas put to use, and Taurus shows a practical application, so he was inventive with materials and tools. The 11th House is also important, and he has Saturn there, which gives him dedication in his associations, but also to the pursuit of new ideas.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #5 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
To Cynthia Novak(below) The disparity is possibly because your version of that program does not correct for Old Style versus New Style, at that time the discrepancy between them was about 9-10 days.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #6 - on: 06.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Bill Lindsay
 
To Cynthia Novak(below) Maybe your program already corrects for New Style/Old Style, and you have to enter the Old Style date(which was 14 April 1452), the date originally recorded for DV's birth. Then the program makes the correction for you. You may have entered the corrected date(23 April), and the program simply corrected it again (by adding another nine days), which would make sense with a Sun nine degrees ahead of where it was in his chart. In this case, disregard my comment to you below this one, I realized my mistake right after I submitted it. Try entering the time reported in the chart details under DV's chart, next to 'Sources:'. Luck to you
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #7 - on: 07.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Pam King
 
Just wonder if the answers have something to do with the Quintile! The Placidus chart aspects indicate at least five quintiles:- 1.Sun quintiles Jupiter:creative abundance = Genius? 2.Sun quintiles Uranus :Unconventional persona? 3.Uranus quintiles MC : Inspirational Achievements? 4.Neptune quintiles ASC :Artistic, sensitive and spiritual?
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #8 - on: 08.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stephen Baxter
 
The quintile and biquintile aspects are very important here, but with Uranus quintile Sun, Jupiter quintile Sun, and Jupiter biquintile Uranus, we have Sun at the midpoint of Jupiter/Uranus. This would be significant even if we ignore quintiles. You will find a Jupiter/Sun/Uranus combo in Isaac Newton's chart. I believe that Sun/Uranus aspects and pictures are most reliable as indicators of genious. Not everyone with such connections is a genious. Some Sun/Uranus folks are just crackpots and troublemakers, but the correlation between Sun/Uranus and genious is more reliable than most. This implies a consideration for midpoints and quintiles, too. With Sun/Jupiter/Uranus, the genious is potentially quite extreme. This is consistant with what is known about midpoint pictures. Sun/Jupiter/Uranus also suggests a free spirit. Bob Dylan has some similar connections.
I don't find that Mercury/Pluto aspects produce genious very consistently. Certainly the Grand Trine, Mercury/Pluto/Ascendant in Da Vinci's chart is very important, but it does not explain his genious. It makes him obsessive and gives him his tendency to hide his writings behind code and secrecy. It is a picture that is useful for anyone with genious.
Saturn/Neptune on MC trine Venus is his profound creativity in matters of fine art. It is his suffering and scandal too since Neptune is conjunct MC in the Tenth House.
I believe that Charles Carter thought that Sun aspects were more reliable than Mercury aspects as indicators of intelligence. Even though I believe it is very difficult to judge intelligence from a chart, Sun/Jupiter, Sun/Uranus, and Sun/Mars aspects with good Mercury aspects or with Jupiter/Venus are good indicators generally. Genious probably requires a several properties acting in concert, but Sun/Uranus is most important. Mars/Uranus and Mercury/Uranus are also common in genious.
Strangely, Jupiter/Uranus aspects are also common in those who seem extremely religious.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #9 - on: 08.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Pam King
 
As a student astrologer am very interested in your comments on my quintile suggestions which have now encouraged me to look at the midpoints of the chart. I now realise that I did not include the North Node quintile the Part of Fortune, which might well sum up Leonardo his persona and his life!
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #10 - on: 10.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
We have rectified Leonardo´s chart to 9:48 PM LMT, but first wish to make some general comments. Birth-times giving a Libra MC are unlikely, since Leonardo was a design perfectionist who kept meticulously organized notebooks. We have used 9:40 PM LMT(Virgo MC) from Lois Rodden´s Astro-Data II for more than 15 years. While no guarantee of accuracy, such familiarity gives us a good basis for further study. It is also plausible to believe that research astrologer A. H. Blackwell worked with hard data, and his 9:46 PM was our starting point for re-rectification. Why the small difference?
 Uranus transits with maximum 0*02´-03´ orbs are a well-known rectification shortcut used by leading astrologers, even though this technique is risky when based solely on isolated events. To accurately integrate sudden and surprising Uranus transits with Leonardo´s chart, we need some knowledge of the history and customs of Renaissance Italy. Leonardo never had much money of his "own money"(Saturn rules empty second house), but slowly accumulated his fortune through patronage(natal Uranus and Pluto in the eighth house of others´ money). His brilliant career(Uranus sxt MC) was also marked by abrupt changes in patronage. As his progressed Asc. opposed natal Uranus, the French invaded Milan, destroyed his famous horse statue, forced him to flee, and defeated and imprisoned his patron Ludovico Sforza(item #9) as Leonardo was still on the move. Later, he went to work for Pope Leo X´s younger brother, but his patron´s death left Leonardo in the lurch once again. This led him to the French court of Francis I, where he spent his final days. The sudden and unexpected death of Guiliano de Medici(item #13) is therefore the Uranus transit we were looking for!!! Semi-sextiles, quincunxes, and other 30* multiples are, of course, major aspects. This was one of the trade secrets we revealed on winning(along with Tony Louis and others) the AstroDatabank Rectification Challenge on Jeffrey Wigand.  
Rectification for Leonardo da Vinci: 14Apr1452, 9:47-9:48 PM LMT, Vinci, Italy(research by John Milton Taber).
 01) 08Apr1476: sodomy charge. Converse IC and trChiron 3*Pisces= Moon. 02) 16Jun1476: charge dismissed. Sun 94*= Koch eighth-house cusp. 03) 10Jan1478: commission for Palazzo Vecchio altarpiece. Converse MC 1*Virgo opp. ruler Jupiter; trPlutoRx 178*5x´= MC. 04) 1485: plague in Milan. Progressed IC 3*-4* Taurus= Sun. 05) 05Apr1489: makes anatomical study. Mars 118*-119* sxt MC. 06) 22Jul1490: adopts Salai. TrMe 153* opp. Moon; Chiron 28*44´ exact ssx IC. 07) mid-1497: finished "Last Supper". Converse Asc. 3*-4* Scorpio opp. Sun. 08) 11Sep1499: French destroy horse statue. TrMarsRx 9* cnj Me; trChiron= Ch; trVe 148* ssx MC. 09) 08Apr1500: patron imprisoned. Progressed Asc. 112* opp. Ur; Sun 28* qcx MC. 10) 09Jul1504: father dies. Converse MC 125*= Pluto; trChiron 123* qcx Moon. 11) 28Oct1505: purported love-child Pietro Luciano. TrVenus 178*= MC. 12) 01Dec1513: resides at Vatican, playing second-fiddle to young rivals. TrMe 248*= Asc. 13) 17Mar1516: patron´s death. Mars 305* opp. Pluto; Uranus 28*44´ qcx MC. 14) 02May1519: death. Progressed Asc. 316*= Mars; trMars 118*qcx trNe 329* ssx IC.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #11 - on: 11.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Southern Cross
 
Keen observation of nature is related to the Mercury-Pluto-Ascendant Grand Trine. Unconventionality relates to Aquarius and Uranus, and there are at least three such factors which made Leonardo unique. The first is Aquarius Mars in Grand Trine to Saturn and Chiron, making him a military(Mars) engineer(Saturn) as well as expressing his male sexuality(Mars) in unusual ways. The second is Mars in the third house, with dispositor Uranus also ruling the cusp. The third house refers to immediate surroundings or neighborhood, and by extension the general environmental circumstances. In other words, the person is different not so much from being a "wacko" as from the circumstances of life. This is readily apparent in Leonardo´s illegitimate birth(Pisces Moon cnj Jupiter quindecile Mars). The third factor is the Uranus placement in Leonardo´s chart.
 Uranus is the planet of genius, and Leonardo´s Uranus loosely conjoins Pluto in the powerful eighth-house. Both sextile the MC, and their midpoint exactly sextiles the MC. Leonardo was the Renaissance "universal man", and when he was born Uranus(superior knowledge) was applying to Pluto(rebirth). The actual conjunction occurred in September, 1455 at 13*32´Leo, semi-square his MC. This Ur-Pl was later activated by Saturn(classical)-Uranus(knowledge) in November, 1489 at 13*25´Capricorn, only 0*07´ orb from an exact quincunx. These mundane Great Conjunctions help give us an astrological explanation not only for Leonardo´s brilliant career but also for the Renaissance itself.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #12 - on: 13.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User donna
 
would anyone like to comment on the recent book ,THE DA VINCI CODE, and his apparent messages in his art and role in metaphysics and outside of water signs on all three occult houses,what his chart really says about what is illuded to in the book? regards and interested donna in ohio
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #13 - on: 14.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Raghu Panikker
 
Some of the comments here seem to take the wrong data;for example Sun is not at the midpoint of Jupiter and Uranus for Da Vinci. Anyway, here are my comments:
There are some groups dismissing Astrology as nonsense altogether and there are groups(Astrologers) who follow it in blind faith like religion. I prefer to be in the middle. The charts of Davinci,Einstein etc. are what made me to move away from mainstream Astrology and to use minimalistic methods employed by Cosmobiologists. What made me uncomfortable was the fact that technically superior looking charts can be found many times during any year and yet no genius is born at those times. For example take the case of artists. For the sake of argument,let us agree on the following:Mercury-Venus or Venus-Neptune aspects are found in the case of artists; conjunction is the strongest aspect;planets exert the strongest influence near the MC. Then one can find one or two days any year(most of the years ) when Mercury-Venus or Venus-Neptune in close conjunction near MC. Since geniuses are rare,even 10% of the babies born during this most appropriate time could account for all the artistic geniuses. But we know this is not what is happening. This is because Cosmic factor is ONE of the MANY factors affecting human life and some unknown factor(brain neuron arrangement?) is what is responsible for producing geniuses. One who study the effect of cosmic factors simply look for manifestations on large groups and attempt to find useful correspondences. If one finds an angular-relationship of Mercury and Venus in a large number of painters and also in a large number of salesmen of art-objects one attempts to make a correspondence "sense and appreciation of beauty" for Mercury/Venus contact and look for confirmation in other artists and professionals in related fields. This is what Ebertin did and his COSI contains so precise and unambiguous descriptions that I have never found difficulty to explain any chart here. Now I will examine some correspondences shown for Da Vinci:
1. MERCURY = VENUS = MARS/JUPITER = MOON/MARS There is a close semi-square between Mercury and Venus and this corresponds to "sense of form and design,beauty and art,"the wings of artistic genius and inspiration" ". Mars/Jupiter corresponds to "successful creative activity" and Mercury and Venus together on Mars/Jupiter is great for "cretaive artistic activity". Venus = Moon/Mars corresponds to "creative activity,the urge to create,shape or mould something" . All of the above corresponds to an artist(painter) and sculptor.
2. MERCURY parallel NEPTUNE in declination corresponds to "an abundant imaginative realm,perception and vision in depth,a grasp of the most subtile and most attenuated correlations or relationships". This points to what the biography said:"In his "Notebooks," he drew cartoonist prototypes of not only the airplane but the submarine, helicopter, machine gun and tank" ...."Leonardo anticipated many discoveries of modern times ".
3. JUPITER = MERCURY/URANUS corresponds to "a far-seeing mind coupled with the ability for long-term planning,success in the solution of technical or mathemaical task" URANUS = SUN/MERCURY corresponds to "incoherent and erratic thinking,sudden ideas,inventions,a flair for applied science and technology" This points to the engineer and mathematician.
4. MARS = NEPTUNE , a close 135degree aspect corresponds to "inspirations,an occasional or temporary interest in artistic pursuits" . This points to what the biography said "... he rarely finished a work of art" and also his non-artistic activities. 5. SUN = PLUTO This is the most important aspect, IMO. Sun square Pluto corresponds to "creative power,an appreciation of innovations,the qualities of leadership,arrogance" . This points to Da Vinci, the Pioneer (one of the sociological correspondence for Sun/Pluto).
6. SUN = MARS/URANUS corresponds to "A sound physique capable of sudden extra effort, a person who is able to act quickly". This is important and points to what the biography said "He ... built stables and chapels, dug latrines and raised fountains, dissected corpses".
7. SUN = VENUS/SATURN corresponds to "Unsatisfied desire in love,inhibitions in sex-expression" SATURN = MOON/VENUS corresponds to "Suppressed feelings,unsatisfied passion" Since homosexuality is relatively rare, I do not think it can be seen from a chart. The above correspondence did manifest in the case of Da Vinci(at least some time during the life),but it can also happen to a heterosexual person.  
8.
[continued in next posting]
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #14 - on: 14.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Raghu Panikker
MOON=JUPITER corresponds to "carrying out enterprises on a large scale,business-ability,inner conflicts with regard to one's outlook on life and the world in general and with regard to religious matters" This aspect has manifested in postive and negative forms and points to heretical beliefs and misanthropic track.
Some comments mentioned Mercury opposition Saturn and I do not consider that here since it is outside the usual orb of 4 degrees. The two other geniuses Newton and Einstein had close Mercury-Saturn contacts pointing to the deep-thinking life of a theoretical physicist. DaVinci certainly does not belong to that group of thinkers(I mean he was far more practical). One might consider Sun in the middle of Mercury and Venus ,taking a larger than usual orb of 1 deg48min since there is an aspect between Mercury and Venus. Since this has already become too long, I will stop here.
I have used correspondences given in COSI exclusively to make sure that I did not use my imagination to find new meaning to planets to describe the genius of da Vinci.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #15 - on: 15.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Stephen Baxter
 
Right, Raghu, I goofed on that one. I was going by my memory on this chart, so when I saw your comment, I checked again. The biquintile between Jupiter/Uranus has a three-degree (or so) orb, but Sun is more than nine degrees from that midpoint. While I tend to allow more orb than a strict cosmobiologist, and I allow more orb when the midpoint bisects an aspect, this is too wide to be considerable. Sorry about that. I should look at this longer to learn some more.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #16 - on: 08.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User pinkandpurpleplastic
 
1) Living outside convention: Sag rising (broad minded, renaiassance man, inventor); Chart ruler Jupiter conjunct Moon in 3d house (more versatility, renaissance man); Neptune conjunct MC because Bill Lindsey says so and it's also inconjunct the chart ruler and the moon (lunacy); Biggie - Uranus conjunct Vertex in 8th house shows preference for alternative lifestyle and alternative types of erotic encounters. Uranus is least aspected planet with one sextile to Venus, lover man). Also, Pluto in the eighth can show a compulsive desire nature. This is confusing though (maybe his Neptune/MC conjunction at work) because he has many signs of a conventional, low key life style (Virgo MC and North node in Capricorn, Mercury opposite Saturn) and it seems like he would really have struggled with his feelings.
2) Keen precise observation of nature: Mercury in Aries opposite Saturn gives a conflict of quickness of thought trying to work with slow planning, is only opposition in chart; Mercury in Cancer gives good memory; Mercury in Grand trine with pluto in 8th (depth of thought) with Sag Ascendant (open mindedness and idealistic philosophical bent); Virgo MC ruled by Mercury (precise); Mercury's in the 4th house of Nature; Neptune conjunct MC and pluto in 8th can indicate deep love of Nature. Tauruses love Nature overall, don't they, more so than say, Geminis? Oh, and his sun's ruler Venus is in Taurus in the 6th house, more precision love of nature.  
3) I guess you'd have to be a Genius to see a Genius so I'm exempt from answering this question. He's got 2 grand trines in his chart so he would have been blessed in many ways. Sun sextile Moon is his most exact aspect (am I right?) so his basic ego and emotional expression flows well through his talents. Neptune conjunct MC and trine Venus shows great artistic skills, those are his closest aspects to his MC which shows why he's seen mainly as an artist. His other aspects show all the other abilities, engineering, inventiveness, sewer systems, really? cool, but I guess the MC is what projects how we're seen because Bob Marks says so.
Sorry for the weird ramble, Happy Lunar Eclipse and Star of David today! I just love this guy. How did he do what he did?
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #17 - on: 09.11.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Michaelangelo
 
Da Vinci's most famous work: Mona Lisa's enigmatic smile: Moon (female) conjunct Jupiter (humour) in 3d (more humour) inconjunct (enigmatic) Neptune (enigmatic) conjunct MC (what you're known for).
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #18 - on: 10.12.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Estebon Duarte
 
His keen observation of nature and ability to manipulate its sources come from the strong placement of the Sun and Venus in the Earth bound sign of Taurus in work and ritual (sixth). Further, Venus disposits Neptune, who is influencing the MC through a out of sign conjunction, creating vision for the mystical side of Earth sciences.
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re: Leonardo da Vinci
« Reply #19 - on: 06.01.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User kjelleman
 
I note that he has Uranus on the Cancer 23, which according to the Sabian symbols would have a connection to being autodidact. I guess there were no schools for helicopter engineers back then...  
Wink
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