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Astro-Databank: Joan of Arc (Read 2013 times)
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Astro-Databank: Joan of Arc
« on: 05.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
Discussion about
Joan of Arc, born 15 January 1413 Greg.Cal. at 5:00 PM in Domremy La Pucelle
 
This discussion is imported from the  comment board on the  previous astrodatabank.com website.

What is the major transit point that was stimulated for every book and movie about Joan of Arc?  
Where do her voices and visions come from?  
Where is her leadership written?  
Are there any traditional astrologers in the audience who could have foretold her death at the stake?
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #1 - on: 12.03.2001 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Den
 
I personally think her voices came from a higher power than we understand, perhaps god - who can say? I can say this about what I have read thus far, she with her voices of faith that she believed in and followed with great heart led her to accomplish the end of wars with England that had lasted a hundred years. What is sad is that a man that became king latter turned away from her after he no longer needed her sickens me, but that is the way of man-kind in general. Tyranny in battle, or in the very soul of mankind, not much difference are they?..!!!!!
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #2 - on: 06.12.2000 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Ian O'Brien
 
I think there should be more information on Charles VII.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #3 - on: 30.10.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astro-Databank staff member
In AstroDatabank, when the birth data is recorded in OS (Old Style), we always enter the corrected NS (New Style) date and time with notations in the Source Notes of the original data given. We strongly recommend that astrologers working with Old Style dates convert them to New Style by hand before entering them into charting software. For example, when we entered Joan of Arc's OS date into Solar Fire 5 as January 6, 1412, it corrected the day shift to January 15 but did not correct the year shift to 1413. Apparently Solar Fire - and probably other charting software - have not been programmed for all of the rules for dealing with Old Style calendars.  
Section III of the AstroDatabank manual (soon to be on our web site) contains several pages of tables showing the year that various countries switched from OS to NS and what day of the year they used for New Year's Day. Some of these historic changes are so widely varied and obscure that we are unsure of specific conversion dates; further documentation will be added when available.  
The moral of the story is: don't trust software to calculate good charts based on entering OS dates. Only by entering NS dates can we trust the charts produced by today's software.  
Lois Rodden
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #4 - on: 08.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User madame seven
 
Perhaps it may seem incredible that someone at 16 years of age could experience and accomplish what Joan of Arc allegedly did. But we have to remember that just because we do not experience these sorts of things and we do not act to this degree for the greater good of mankind, that does not mean that no one is capable of doing so.  
i do not doubt that Joan was a Capricorn. Considering the other planetary signs, it was highly probable that she was born at this time. Capricorns with Venus in Sagittarius are a different breed--they are more passionate, inspired, more likely to be activists and certainly more idealistic than those with Venus in Capricorn or Aquarius. The conjunction in Aquarius is not to be downplayed--an obvious clue to her mission and the drive behind it. As for Aries qualities, we can look to the Midheaven as well as that strong Mars-Uranus squared by Jupiter.  
Regardless of sun sign, i believe that anyone with a Neptune opposite Mercury and Pisces Moon is capable of hearing voices, voices of God, spirits, angels, whatever. But it would take a Cardinal sign to follow through with the mission, and believe it or not, Capricorns have got what it takes to do this. Think Nostradamus ... Martin Luther King Jr. These two, as well as Joan of Arc, were persecuted for what they were driven to do: save people from illness and strife. Capricorns always take the heat, risk pissing people off (Rush Limbaugh!) for their cause--and their cause is not always a selfish one, as a lot of people seem to think.  
I have not given too much credence to the house placements in this chart, as i am not convinced that the birth time is correct. But especially with a Pisces Moon to give her the compassion to risk her life for others, this birth date makes sense to me.  
But in case the ascendant is correct, i will add this: I have noticed that people with a south node close to or conjunct their ascendants seem to have a head start on learning selflessness. especially being in Leo, she would have already mastered personal strength and gotten over her ego issues, ready to take on social reform with the help of Uranus in its home planet.  
that's it for now.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #5 - on: 05.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sue Simmons
 
I don't see how anyone could seriously believe that Joan of Arc was a Capricorn. How many 16 year old Capricorn girls do you know who could have heard God's or other voices telling her to raise a siege and then actually go get permission from the army to do it, go house to house getting men, supplies, horses, armor, etc. and go out and do battle over a period of a couple of years, changing the course of the war? Liz Greene, in her book, Astrology for Lovers, says that it is not known when in 1412 Joan was born but that she thinks that her story is perfect for the Aries myth and she thinks Joan was an Aries. As an Aries I have to agree. I have lived out this saga in small and anonymous ways all my life, as have other ordinary Aries I have known. The elements are seeing/hearing the vision, the goal and how to go about it putting it into action. The goal is an impersonal one and favors the underdog. Robin Hood is a good example.  
What she didn't see was that the future king she was working for was not a very good king. This is the pitfall. Aries tend to not see that the goal or cause for which they are working is not really worth it. They don't stop to consider the consequences. How many Aries Sun or Aries South Node people do you know who are paramedics, nurses, social workers, etc. They are rushing to the rescue. They also burn themselves out. Joan was burned at the stake at age 19.  
On the political scene, Al Gore is a good example of the Aries story. He has been a good helpmate for Clinton all these years. He has said he operates as the eyes and ears for the president (he has South Node in Scorpio). Now when he needs Clinton's help, Clinton can't give him any. Gore is on his own and he must separate himself from Clinton's problems. Clinton, it could be argued, was not worth all that effort. What will happen to Gore in the end we don't know yet. But normally Aries spend their energy helping others or working for a cause that helps others and then finds that the people or cause weren't really worth it. Not only do they not get any credit for what they have done, people assign selfish motives to what they did. Note Joan was put through a long and cruel trial before her death in which she was charged and convicted of heresy.  
There is a website devoted to setting the record straight about the historical details of Joan's life. It is members.aol.com/hywwebsite/private/joanofarc.html. This website says that the date Jan. 6, 1412 came from a letter to the Duke of Milan from Perceval de Boulainvilliers. But it doesn't say there are any family or church records or any other mention of her birth date. In fact, at her trial Joan did not know her birth date. In her trial testimony (Feb. 1412) she said, "In my own country they call me Jeannette; since I came into France I have been called Jean. Of my surname I know nothing. I was born in the village of Domremy, which is really one with the village of Greux. The principal church is at Greux. My father is called Jaques d'Arc; my mother Ysabelle.. I am, I should say, about nineteen years of age."  
If Joan did not know her birth date and it was not known by anyone at the trial, then there were no family or church records. She knew the priest's name who baptized her and the church where she was baptized so if there were church records they could easily have been located. If she did not know her own birthdate then other family members didn't either so there couldn't have been any family records. Probably the letter that refers to the Jan. 6 birth date is in error and has been quoted and repeated since then. There is no real evidence of any kind to support this date. And where in the world did the 5:00 PM time come from? Before we accept this date and time we should look at the chart and see if it describes her.  
The chart shown here has Saturn in Gemini in the 11th. At age 16 this person would still be having trouble speaking up and speaking out. It would only be much later in life that the person could have overcome this enough to do what she did and even then it would be remarkable. She has Mars and Uranus in the 7th in Aquarius but North Node is conjunct them. Again, she would not be able to work positively on this until much later in life, if at all. At 16 she would still be stuck in the South Node in Leo, which at her age means that she would be entirely centered on personal matters and not interested in politics at all. And what she did is completely inconsistent with how a 16 year old Capricorn Sun and Mercury would be operating.  
Since there is no credible evidence to support the date and time, I don't think her data should be reported on Astrodatabank at all.
[continued in next posting]
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #6 - on: 05.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
[continued from posting above:] by Sue Simmons
 
The problem with the date reminds me of the problem with Eric Harris' birth data. Arlene Nimark, in her article in the Oct. 1999 issue of the Mercury Hour, says that Eric and his family only lived in Plattsburg from 1991-93 and that police records she found on the internet as well as his Marine Corps application which he filled out himself show Wichita, KS as his birthplace. So the data we have been using with a Plattsburg birthplace must be that of another Eric Harris. Will someone in Wichita find the Colorado Eric Harris birth data and let us know?
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #7 - on: 05.10.2000 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User maurice
 
Reply to Sue Simmons:  
It is true that Joan has a strong emphasis of Aries energy, but must it be her sun only !!!  
Her south node is in an Aries house, in leo + Mars is conjunct her North node.  
Many souls born with Mars conj the NNode, SNode, or square the nodes are liberators, freedom fighters, and murderers (regardless of age). In her chart the signature points out to be a liberator for her king (Aquarius - Leo) Ruler of the South node - sun is in capricorn in the 6th which gave all the strategies. + sun in capricorn are mature from birth...  
and please don't compare any teenager to Joan of Arc,  
The transits for her death day, she has saturn on her sun in capricorn (persecution) and the transiting sun is exactly on her pluto (death...)  
The angles might not be exact to the degree, but it must be pretty close.  
anyway - I understand your doubts, and the problem with the source, but your arguments are inconsistent.
Maybe your astrology teacher is not always right ! That's also an idea to consider (i.e. - young people do access their NNode - Capricorn are good warriors - Mars in aquarius are freedom fighter especially if on NNode - and mars in aquarius have no problem being virgins forever).
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #8 - on: 13.07.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Lonni
 
I think its a good possibility this is the chart of Joan of Arc, we need to discount the house positions since we will never be sure of the birth time. Capricorn is the perfect sign for her, since in esoteric astrology this is the sign of the fighting and triumphant creature. Capricorn is the sign of man with his feet firmly planted on the ground, but he runs free and climbs the heights of either spiritual or material ambition. In Joan's case it was spiritual ambition. Add to this a Pisces Moon square the planet Pluto (signature of the medium), and Mars square idealistic Jupiter you have a person who is not only idealistic but one on a mission. The day she was burned at the stake Saturn was transiting her Sun and Neptune was opposing her Mars an aspect that had been affecting her life for over a year. These transits indicated her trials and tribulations of the final months of her life
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #9 - on: 24.08.2001 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Isirius
 
The leadership may come from Sun in Capricorn on the 6th house, trine with Saturn, of course. Jupiter in Scorpio makes "a good warrior", in the 4th house of property square with erratic Mars and erratic Uranus at home in Aquarius. Also, Jupiter rules the Spirit and intellect opposition between Neptune and Mercury, giving it good luck. The voice comes from the Moon in Pisces in the 8th house.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #10 - on: 09.06.2002 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Susan J
 
I am surprised that no one mentions that Neptune is not only in the 12th house but in opposition to Merury - which is in Mutual Reception on Saturn in the 11th? and also Quincux Saturn -- Those 3 energies combined seem to have a lot to do with the spiritual voices/visions/responsibility and restrictions, too.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #11 - on: 27.10.2002 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User ann
 
Joan of Arc was undoubtably a Capricorn with moon in Libra...
This configuration combines cool judgement and abundant sensibilities with a well developed sixth sense, qualities expected of a calm leader. They have a vision which they pursue tenaciously through concentration of their abilities. Capricorns are naturally precocious as children on the quest for spiritual and material gain - moon Librans make good strategists. The influence of saturn and venus on the sun-moon personality profile may explain the interest in religion and mysticism. These people are usually more humanitarian than the regular common garden breed of Capricorn - backed up by venus in Aquarius (who are inherently spiritual). Mars in Pisces - actions dictated by some kind of mysterious other worldly force?
Mercury in Capricorn - ambition and profound mind
Voices and visions......likely to be from God. Who else?
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #12 - on: 30.01.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User luis abbud
 
Joan of Arc was not the only woman to her voices to save the dauphin on those times according with history books nevertheless, her opposition of planets between Gemini and Sagitarious show this tendency like Virginia Wolf with her ascendant in Gemini.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #13 - on: 28.04.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Sha Mika Barnes
 
I like joan of arc she was inspired and did what she believed in because of god and that's more than anyone now days would do.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #14 - on: 20.10.2003 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Vince Johnston
 
Last month I was on holiday with my medieval pals in Picardie, we participated in le fete de Follville, a huge medieval fest to be exact. It was only on my last day driving through the countryside that I became aware that the energy that communicated to Joan is still there - no voices or angels sadly, just a huge massive energy that she was able to translate into French, which I couldn't, I could just be aware of it's awesome presence. For anyone who's interested, the next Joan of Arc festival will be next May at Compiegne which I intend to make a film about. Looking forward to it! All the best to all the Joan fans!!
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #15 - on: 08.12.2003 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User Furheen
 
Oh didn't anyone notice the mystic cross and the tom boy aspect mars uranus. The sagittarian religious MC ruler Venus is in the house of what one creates. Sure the very revealing doubly intuitive moon is not only Pisces but in the 8th scorpio house.Yes she was under influence that changed her dramatically.First from a women/mother which led to the authority. Most important is the schizophrenic aspect of Neptune/illusions to the mind/Mercury sure she heard voices. South node negation yes of what.Only one guess! There is a signature aspect of domestic/also means to the nation upheavel,ya which one!along with the determination aspect and help from authority. last but not least the fulfillment aspect denotes she achieved what she visualized and was ordered from higher authority. Negating her own self for the cause negation in fire leo a fire sign!
A very interesting chart the whole drama unfolds here & no gifted true astrologer can miss it.
Wouldn't it be more wonderful if we told what the planets/aspects unfold than other general unrelated things. The objective of the site is to learn astrology. I hope I did add some thing. Thank you astrodata bank.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #16 - on: 03.02.2004 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User chrono
 
French saint and savior who is known as the Maid of Orleans or La Pucelle D'Orleans, a national heroine and a history phenomena
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #17 - on: 02.05.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User dawn
 
As I do vedic astrology I run off my own charts to convert them.  
I am having a bit of trouble with this chart. If you add 9 days you get jan 15 1412. But you have drawn the chart up for plus 1 year for some reason. ie 6 jan 1413
Plus I ran two separate sets of software and they showed the same chart as you have on 6th jan 1413.(just to double check)
This has left me a bit dumbfounded.  
 "Birth Date: 01/06/1412 (Jan 6, 1412) OS 01/15/1413 (Jan 15, 1413) NS Birth Time: 17:00 (05:00 PM) LMT (-0:23)  
B.R. in hand, Steinbrecher, giving January 6, 1412. The day correction of OS to NS is plus nine days. As France was on the Annunciation calendar, this is properly 1412/13 OS. The OS year 1413 started on March 25th, but by NS reckoning, it was already 1413 in January.
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #18 - on: 04.05.2005 at 13:30 [UT+1] »
 
reply by Astro-Databank staff member
The subject of calendar changes is a complicated one. Our [was_link]Data Collector's Handbook[/was_link] attempts to explain all the different permutations of date changes.  
Joan of Arc's birth date is even more complicated than the usual nine-day differential between Julian and Gregorian calendars; to convert her date of birth requires two steps instead of one.
At the time of her birth, the Annunciation calendar was observed so we must first convert the date to Julian/OS. Second, we want to convert the Julian/OS date to Gregorian/New Style (NS) calendar.
So we start knowing that she was born on Epiphany or January 6. The year of 1412 was on her birth record BUT under the Annunciation Calendar, the year started on the previous March 25 or "Annunciation Day." (Therefore Joan of Arc was born several months after 1412 began.) Under the Julian system, since the year changed on January 1, then Joan of Arc would have been born on January 6, 1413. Now we convert the Julian/OS date to Gregorian/NS and hence you must add the nine days to get January 15, 1413.  
regards, Pat Taglilatelo AstroDatabank Editor
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re: Joan of Arc
« Reply #19 - on: 09.03.2006 at 12:30 [UT] »
 
reply by Astrodatabank Web User mike
 
thanks for the informaton... it's usefull for my research...
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