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Corrections of existing Astro-Databank entries (Read 28849 times)
Alois
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Corrections of existing Astro-Databank entries
« on: 01.04.2009 at 12:58 [UT+1] »
 
Please enter corrections of Astro-Databank data in this thread.
 
Please be aware that the source must be given for all data.
 
It is not enough to write 'Joan Tatter is born at 5:34 pm', but the source, preferably printed source, where this information comes from, must be given. Just to quote others who said so will often not be sufficient, if they in turn do not name their sources.
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« Last Edit: 17.04.2012 at 09:25 [UT+1] by Alois »  
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~ Kent ~
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Re: corrections
« Reply #1 - on: 01.04.2009 at 17:32 [UT+1] »
 
Robert Bly, December 23, 1926, 7:00 AM, Aberdeen, South Dakota.
Source: Robert Bly, who is astrologically savy, gave me his birth data in face-to-face interview during a men's conference in Mendocino, California.
 
This only changes his Asc by ~6 degrees to 14Sagittarius15 but does put Mercury 2-3 degrees behind the Asc and Mars right on the 5th cusp (Placidus) as well as Saturn in 12th rather than the 11th.
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Alois
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Re: corrections
« Reply #2 - on: 01.04.2009 at 22:52 [UT+1] »
 
But how about this source which claims 'birth certificate in hand' ?
 
Quote:
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bly%2C_Robert
Philip Lucas in Mercury Hour, 10/1979 quotes B.C. in hand. Same in Gauquelin Book of American Charts: 07:20 AM Madison MN

 
One should better not ignore a source which is the birth certificate itself, and has a more detailed time than you quote. How old was Robert Bly when he told you that? He is now 82, after all.
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Isaac Starkman
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Re: Alexander Marr
« Reply #3 - on: 03.04.2009 at 09:02 [UT+1] »
 
Alexander Marr: www.astro.com/astro-databank/Marr,_Alexander
In his book "Astrologers, Kings, Politicians and Others" 1990 he wrote that the hospital record for his birth is 13.30 MET, which he rectified to 13.11.14 MET Asc 16Leo33' with Saturn rising, not Neptune.
He wasn't Swiss astrologer. He moved to Germany at age one.
Not only that he wasn't a sideralist, but strongly opposed to their system, although for many years he published articles in SPICA.  
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Alois
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Re: corrections
« Reply #4 - on: 03.04.2009 at 09:49 [UT+1] »
 
Isaac77, would it be possible to scan or photograph the book page, which you apparently possess?
 
You can either post it here as a picture, or email it to webmaster@astro.com, or upload and include in the wiki talk page http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Talk:Marr%2C_Alexander
 
Also regarding your claim that Marr was NOT a siderealist, some documentation would be good, for example a list of his 150 published articles.
 
Philip Graves wrote on 21 Nov 2007 about Alexander Marr
Quote:
Alexander Marr was [...] in the sidereal arena, with his series of books on predictive techniques from a sidereal perspective, all three of which are called simply 'Prediction', but again they are quite different internally. I think Volume One is still in print but Volumes Two and Three are out of print and extremely difficult to obtain second-hand.
(quoted from http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2978 )
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Isaac Starkman
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Re: Willie Nelson
« Reply #5 - on: 03.04.2009 at 11:18 [UT+1] »
 
Willie Nelson:  www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nelson,_Willie
In the new biography: Willie Nelson, An Epic Life by Joe Nick Patoski, page 13:
"He came… a few minutes before midnight, during the last hour of April 29, 1933. Doc Simmms, who delivered both Nelson children at his home, recorded the boy's birth on the first hour of April 30."
The biographer didn't gave the reason for recoding the birth one day later, but I guess the reason is 30 April 1933 was Sunday, surely a more "dignified" day to be born in it.  
My rectification is 11.42.48 PM CST Asc 10Cap 05'
 
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Bogdan Krusinski
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Re: corrections --> off topic wiki error
« Reply #6 - on: 03.04.2009 at 14:44 [UT+1] »
 
I added a comment to a talk page on wiki page, and after this when I try to enter additonal comments to this page I get  only:
 
Permission error
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Isaac Starkman
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Re: Alexander Marr
« Reply #7 - on: 03.04.2009 at 14:46 [UT+1] »
 
Philip Graves is an avid collector of astrological books but he most probably didn't read properly Marr's books. In all his books and articles Alexander Marr never used the Sidereal Zodiac like Cyril Fagan or Brigadier Firebrance, the editor of Spica. Indeed, he took some of their techniques and applied them into the Tropical Zodiac, like Fagan's PSSR system.
I quote from the foreword of Marr's book Prediction I:
The discoveries of the eminent astrologer Cyril Fagan split the astrological world into three main camps: Tropical, Sidereal, and what the late Brigadier Firebrance termed "Little Bastard Zodiac", where precession is expunged from charts whilst maintaining the tropical zodiac…I hope to persuade Siderealists that transits to the radix should be applied in the tropical manner, that is, disregarding precession. However, in regard to return charts, both Tropical and Sidereal Solar Returns are valid."
Marr wrote many articles in Spica, the Sidereal journal, because it was at that time the only journal that agreed to publish his articles, That could be the source for the error of classifying him as siderealist.
Alexander Marr should be classified as one of the top rectificators in the history of astrology.
Sorry, Alois, currently I don't have scanner.
 
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Re: corrections
« Reply #8 - on: 03.04.2009 at 20:04 [UT+1] »
 
Quote from Alois on 01.04.2009 at 22:52 [UT+1]:
But how about this source which claims 'birth certificate in hand' ?

Quote:
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bly%2C_Robert
Philip Lucas in Mercury Hour, 10/1979 quotes B.C. in hand. Same in Gauquelin Book of American Charts: 07:20 AM Madison MN


One should better not ignore a source which is the birth certificate itself, and has a more detailed time than you quote. How old was Robert Bly when he told you that? He is now 82, after all.

 
 
Alois –
 
This was ~15 years ago and he was in great form.  Not only is he a writer, speaker and an alternative sort of teacher but he is also a translator and a publisher.  There IS a bit of the trickster in him (MercuryconjunctAsc).  I remember my double take when he said Aberdeen, South Dakota but that’s what he said and I wrote it in my journal as he spoke the words.  I wouldn’t change your database either.  Even on his own website it says he was born in Madison, Minnesota which is 80 miles or 7 little towns to the East of Aberdeen.  
 
The only difference using Equal houses in the Aberdeen chart, Pluto moves from late 7th into 8th,
And Mercury moves from 9 deg to within 2.5 degrees behind the Sagittarius horizon.
____________________
Other than Bly’s Mercury quintile Jupiter, by my orbs Mercury has only one major aspect: a very wide separating trine with his LeoMoon.  
Mercury has a questionable conjunct with Saturn, but it’s also very wide at 9.5 degrees and separating.  
Other than ruling his MC, correction: his MC is Libra so Mercury has no rulership over any of the planets or important points  
and is in the sign of its detriment in the 12th house.  
The Madison, MN chart puts Bly’s Mercury about 8.5 degrees away from a conjunct with the Ascendant and separating.  
These are not very strong or distinguishing marks for a Mercury which seems to have put his signature all over this man.
 
On the other hand with the Aberdeen chart MercuryconjunctAsc (2.5 degrees) we can expect Mercury to manifest in an archetypal way and larger than life which accurately describes Bly.
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« Last Edit: 04.04.2009 at 19:03 [UT+1] by u131562228 »  
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John Burns
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Re: corrections
« Reply #9 - on: 17.04.2009 at 00:03 [UT+1] »
 
Proclus was not, as suggested in the "Source Notes", born BCE.  He was a Neo-Platonist and was born about 800 years after Plato, who indeed was born in the 5th century BCE.  I am not sure how these errors are corrected or to whom to send notice of such errors.  Perhaps someone could let me know.  Thanks.
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Re: corrections
« Reply #10 - on: 30.04.2009 at 02:01 [UT+1] »
 
As the source notes say, King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden was born at Haga Palace in Stockholm. But the coordinates given in the astro-databank are for another place called Haga (Haga Kungsgård) in Finland, not Sweden.
 
(I have coordinates for Haga Palace, 59°21'49''N 18°02'22''E, from the Swedish wiki page for Haga Palace, but I guess the coordinates for Stockholm are good enough, especially because of the conflicting birth times...)
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Re: corrections
« Reply #11 - on: 30.04.2009 at 07:45 [UT+1] »
 
About the King's birth time, i found this web page "Stjärnrummet".
http://www.stjarnrummet.com/horoskopdata/kungahuset/index.html
Sorry it's in Swedish, but if you scroll down there's a photo of a fax sent by Cecilia Wilmhardt, who was Secretary of information at the Office of the Marshal of the Realm, with birth times of all the members of the Royal family. You can see it says the King was born at 10.30am.
 
The article says that on 24 Aug 1995, Stjärnrummet phoned Cecilia Wilmhardt asking for the Royal family's birth data. This was granted immediately and the fax arrived a few hours later. But because there had been a few sources saying the time was 10.20am, they called Wilmhardt again for confirmation. She called back a few minutes later saying that both she and her secretary had checked Sibylla's (the King's mother) medical record again, and it indeed said 10.30.
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Alois
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Re: corrections
« Reply #12 - on: 30.04.2009 at 07:53 [UT+1] »
 
Re King Carl Gustav: thanks, we have taken notice, and Astro-Databank will be updated accordingly.
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babalon1919
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Re: corrections
« Reply #13 - on: 02.05.2009 at 04:10 [UT+1] »
 
Joan of Arc was born in 1412, not 1413, as listed on her databank page.
This is the generally agreed upon, and logical, year of her birth based on her age at execution (19) in 1431 as recorded in the trial and other related documents.
 
Here are some links, with documents, in support of this correction:
 
Medieval Sourcebook: The Trial of Joan of Arc, 1431
Saint Joan of Arc Center, Albuquerque, NM
Catholic Encyclopedia
MSN Encarta
 
 kiss
 
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Alois
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Re: corrections
« Reply #14 - on: 02.05.2009 at 11:44 [UT+1] »
 
Quote from ~drop~ on 30.04.2009 at 07:45 [UT+1]:
About the King's birth time, i found this web page "Stjärnrummet".
http://www.stjarnrummet.com/horoskopdata/kungahuset/index.html

 
The database editor, Pat Tagliatelo, has now updated the Swedish royal family based on this excellent source. Some extra family members have been added. Thanks a lot for providing the information.
Her are the new data: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Special:RecentChanges
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Re: corrections
« Reply #15 - on: 02.05.2009 at 12:08 [UT+1] »
 
Babalon, sometimes 1413 is 1412.
A quote from the source notes:
Quote:
B.R. in hand, Steinbrecher, giving January 6, 1412. The day correction of OS to NS is plus nine days. As France was on the Annunciation calendar, this is properly 1412/13 OS. The OS year 1413 started on March 25th, but by NS reckoning, it was already 1413 in January.

The link to the article on Cura website doesn't work anymore, but I have another one.
http://cura.free.fr/xv/14rodden.html
 
~
 
Thanks Alois
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babalon1919
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Re: corrections
« Reply #16 - on: 03.05.2009 at 00:43 [UT+1] »
 
Quote from ~drop~ on 02.05.2009 at 12:08 [UT+1]:
Babalon, sometimes 1413 is 1412.
A quote from the source notes:
Quote:
B.R. in hand, Steinbrecher, giving January 6, 1412. The day correction of OS to NS is plus nine days. As France was on the Annunciation calendar, this is properly 1412/13 OS. The OS year 1413 started on March 25th, but by NS reckoning, it was already 1413 in January.

The link to the article on Cura website doesn't work anymore, but I have another one.
http://cura.free.fr/xv/14rodden.html

~

Thanks Alois

 
i read your source...did you read any of mine?
 
 Wink
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Re: corrections
« Reply #17 - on: 03.05.2009 at 01:02 [UT+1] »
 
Yes I did. None of them mentioned which calendar they meant when they said 1412. Back then they used one calendar. Now we use another. So when we say Jan 15, 1413 in our calendar, it's the same thing as saying Jan 6, 1412 in their calendar. Not all historians have taken the trouble to convert dates to our calendar, or even specify which one they're using.
 
Kind of like when it's noon in the UK, it's morning in the US. Neither is "wrong" or "right".
 
See on Joan of Arc's astrodatabank page, where it says "greg" next to the year? That means the date is in our calendar, the gregorian calendar. Astrodienst can compute julian calendar dates also. But the annunciation calendar, which the French used in 1413, is not an option here. That's why the date has to be translated into the gregorian or julian calendar, before the Astrodienst computer can understand it. But it's still the same day, with the same planetary positions.
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Re: corrections
« Reply #18 - on: 03.05.2009 at 06:03 [UT+1] »
 
Quote from ~drop~ on 03.05.2009 at 01:02 [UT+1]:
Yes I did. None of them mentioned which calendar they meant when they said 1412. Back then they used one calendar. Now we use another. So when we say Jan 15, 1413 in our calendar, it's the same thing as saying Jan 6, 1412 in their calendar. Not all historians have taken the trouble to convert dates to our calendar, or even specify which one they're using.

Kind of like when it's noon in the UK, it's morning in the US. Neither is "wrong" or "right".

See on Joan of Arc's astrodatabank page, where it says "greg" next to the year? That means the date is in our calendar, the gregorian calendar. Astrodienst can compute julian calendar dates also. But the annunciation calendar, which the French used in 1413, is not an option here. That's why the date has to be translated into the gregorian or julian calendar, before the Astrodienst computer can understand it. But it's still the same day, with the same planetary positions.

 
yes, i understand all that...
 
what i meant was, did you refer to the actual trial documentation? the stuff that joan and her family testified about, in regard to her birth date?  obviously, they were using the calendar system that they were using.  if you get my drift...
 
the feast of epiphany may fall on a *certain* specific day each year, regardless of system used, but from one year to the next the ephemeris will not be identical.
 
BUT, if you go by what joan and those who knew her from birth said, she was almost certainly 19 years old when executed in 1431.  her trial and condemnation were not solely french or confined only to the french national customs, etc.
the english were involved, too.
her first statement regarding her age was made in February of 1531.
 
i'm not saying that i am absolutely correct or anything like that - it's not up to me to decide (or you, either, i'm assuming)
 
what i am saying is that it does deserve another, more careful, examination
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Re: corrections
« Reply #19 - on: 03.05.2009 at 19:28 [UT+1] »
 
Sorry for assuming you didn't know about the calendars, but it wasn't apparent that you did, from what you said. Especially considering that astrodatabank mention 1412 and all.
 
If she indeed was 19, then yes I guess there's reason to reconsider.
 
So... In the trial transcripts I've seen, she says:
 
"I am, I should say, about nineteen years of age."
http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/sec01.html
 
or
 
"I think I am about nineteen years of age."
http://female-ancestors.com/daughters/joan.htm
 
but I haven't been able to find any quotes from her parents?
 
As for her childhood friends, godparents and so on, this was all I could find on their testimonies:
http://www.stjoan-center.com/Trials/null03.html
Only one of them said anything about her age, not that it helps much; "Jeanne was older than I."
 
Like you say, it's not up to me to decide. But if it was, I would appreciate references to what you're saying about what her friends and family said about her age. Her own statement is too vague.
 
Btw the English began their new year on March 25, too.
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